Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Arken · 07-28-2003, 05:00 AM

Speaking of insults, I'm quite insulted with the implication that I'm a dishonest person. I take pride in my honesty. If you want to weasel out of the test, fine... but to do it by insulting my honesty is angering to say the least.

nogods4me · 07-28-2003, 05:28 AM

Quote:

I do not work as professional astrologer; I have developed the software for scientific research in astrology.

and that research would be????? and the results have been published where? and your methodology is?

Volker.Doormann · 07-28-2003, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nogods4me
and that research would be?

Scientifically based astrological research can be made if a tool is used, that delivers all time the same interpretations to a time of birth and a location of birth, and to all other times of birth and other locations of birth as well. Such a tool I have generated. If there is a competent person or a number of persons, who is, or are able to classify the character of a person correct, because of knowledge in psychology, psychotherapy, and a long experience with all kinds of character elements, and a specific knowledge about a testperson in deep clear honest communication with the testperson, this person or those persons may be also able to qualify the grad of matching of the output of such a tool. They can make statistics on their qualifying and significance calculations. Each one who has the competence, can get my tool for free, to start working. I have offered this tool since 1995, but no one has ask for it to check that tool using scientifically methods.

Volker.Doormann · 07-28-2003, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jesse
... it would be interesting to those of us who know in our hearts we are honest and believe we have fairly good insight into our own character.

Jesse,
you speak about believe in forum of science and skepticism regarding a character, from which you say, you have a fairly good insight. But this is personal opinion, without any scientifically worth; you must be abel to show by proof, that that, what your insight may, is verificable or fasificable, for that it is nothing as fantasy. Show me that proof, acknowledged by the science community, and - the moderators of II, and I take you serious.

Volker

P.S. If you would like to read an output of my tool using your birth data, e-mail me.

ps418 · 07-28-2003, 06:48 AM

Volker,

I seem to remember from the last thread you participated in that you were not willing to make any clear predictions at all about the future. Nor would you explain how various qualities are attributed to celestial balls of gas and rock. This time around, are you going to make any specific predictions about the future, or explain the method whereby qualities are atributed to celestial bodies?

Quote:

Volker:
All astrologers in the world agree on the effect of 'boundary' concerning Saturn. Saturn can shield something, but it can also limit the freedom in several areas (p.e. father). 'You are well inside, but you cannot go out', may a sentence related to Saturn.

Back up for a minute, if you dont mind. What does Saturn "mean," astrologically, how was this meaning determined, and how would you resolve a dispute between individuals about the astrological meaning of a celestial object?

Patrick

Volker.Doormann · 07-28-2003, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ps418

Sorry - you are on my ignore list

ps418 · 07-28-2003, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Jesse:
Here's a possible experiment we could do here--people here could give you three or four different possible birthdays, one of which is their real birthday, then you could use your software to come up with personality profiles for each one, without saying which goes with which birthday. The person could pick the profile that matches best, and you could tell them which birthday that profile was for and see if it's correct.

Quote:

Volker:
LOL. Why should I trust any person here, that the person is integer and honest? Why should a person agree on some deep lacks of his character if be stated? You read about that what bias people have, what disbelieve. Your suggested experiment lacks exact on this.

Quote:

Jesse:
Even though the experiment might be worthless to you if you don't trust anyone here, it would be interesting to those of us who know in our hearts we are honest and believe we have fairly good insight into our own character. If you have a computer program to help you, I assume it's not too difficult to come up with profiles, so what's the harm in obliging us? You were willing to do it for lunachick, even though you have no guarantees she's being honest about her character either.

Quote:

Volker:
you speak about believe in forum of science and skepticism regarding a character, from which you say, you have a fairly good insight. But this is personal opinion, without any scientifically worth; you must be abel to show by proof, that that, what your insight may, is verificable or fasificable, for that it is nothing as fantasy. Show me that proof, acknowledged by the science community, and - the moderators of II, and I take you serious.

Short translation: "No, I refuse to take part in such an objective test." Somehow, I'm not surprised.

Patrick

ps418 · 07-28-2003, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Volker.Doormann
Sorry - you are on my ignore list

Smart move, Volker. Great way to avoid the unpleasant feelings associated with falsification of cherished beliefs.

Patrick

Jesse · 07-28-2003, 08:31 AM

Volker.Doormann
Jesse,
you speak about believe in forum of science and skepticism regarding a character, from which you say, you have a fairly good insight. But this is personal opinion, without any scientifically worth; you must be abel to show by proof, that that, what your insight may, is verificable or fasificable, for that it is nothing as fantasy. Show me that proof, acknowledged by the science community, and - the moderators of II, and I take you serious.

There is no "proof" of anything in science, but I'd just point out that virtually all scientific studies about personality (for example, studies which try to see how genes or childhood experiences influence personality) involve people evaluating whether various descriptions fit themselves or not, or their friends evaluating whether the statements describe the person. The astrological study by Edgar Wunder, which you mentioned approvingly, also involved such self-evaluations. The point is, even if people's evaluations of personality traits in themselves or others are not perfectly consistent, they should at least be slightly different than random chance, and that's all you need for these sorts of statistical studies.

Volker.Doorman:
P.S. If you would like to read an output of my tool using your birth data, e-mail me.

If I gave you three or four different birthdates, would you be willing to read the output of your program for each one, without initially telling me which was which?

Arken · 07-28-2003, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jesse
If I gave you three or four different birthdates, would you be willing to read the output of your program for each one, without initially telling me which was which?

I already offered this. (See above) He declined based on the insinuation that I am a liar.

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07-28-2003, 05:00 AM	#41
Arken Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North Hollywood, CA Posts: 6,303	Speaking of insults, I'm quite insulted with the implication that I'm a dishonest person. I take pride in my honesty. If you want to weasel out of the test, fine... but to do it by insulting my honesty is angering to say the least.

07-28-2003, 08:31 AM	#49
Jesse Moderator - Science Discussions Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Providence, RI, USA Posts: 9,908	Volker.Doormann Jesse, you speak about believe in forum of science and skepticism regarding a character, from which you say, you have a fairly good insight. But this is personal opinion, without any scientifically worth; you must be abel to show by proof, that that, what your insight may, is verificable or fasificable, for that it is nothing as fantasy. Show me that proof, acknowledged by the science community, and - the moderators of II, and I take you serious. There is no "proof" of anything in science, but I'd just point out that virtually all scientific studies about personality (for example, studies which try to see how genes or childhood experiences influence personality) involve people evaluating whether various descriptions fit themselves or not, or their friends evaluating whether the statements describe the person. The astrological study by Edgar Wunder, which you mentioned approvingly, also involved such self-evaluations. The point is, even if people's evaluations of personality traits in themselves or others are not perfectly consistent, they should at least be slightly different than random chance, and that's all you need for these sorts of statistical studies. Volker.Doorman: P.S. If you would like to read an output of my tool using your birth data, e-mail me. If I gave you three or four different birthdates, would you be willing to read the output of your program for each one, without initially telling me which was which?

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