Sabine Grant

Hello Luiseach..... open-mindedness : it then should not exhibit any prejudicial thinking?

Starboy

Shaun, I don't care for Christianity and its effects. I see Christians as being intolerant, thoughtless, bigoted and irrational. All that being said I will fight to the death to protect their right to think and believe as they wish. It is necessary for them to understand that if they do not extend the same courtesy to others then they are not the open minded people they claim to be. The history of Christianity is one long atrocity. It is not surprising that peoples in countries without a major Christian presence are not keen to welcome them. Those Christians who cannot exercise tolerance and leave people alone that wish to be left alone should not be surprised when they are met with hostility. Christians spend billions to "spread the word". That is a very aggressive act.

Starboy

Radorth

Re.

Fine. Define it how you like. There are things in heaven and earth not dreamt of by your philosophy.

No it wasn't and it doesn't even say that. Besides it sounds like a parlor trick and is easily disproven anyway. This is an irresponsible and/or ignorant assertion.

I don't. I'm asking if it happened to you if you would believe it and call it evidence. You would.

So, Washington was an idiot apparently, and you and Starboy are much wiser. Thankfully neither of you will ever be President, or father a country.

Unprovable and gratuitous assertion number 5 in your post. Actually we all know now how atheists jump at anything resembling proof of their pet theories, twisting facts and quotes until they become servants of their faith. Thus we have them trying to explain how Paul wrote Acts 50 years after he died, that Washington didn't read what he signed, etc.

Rad

Proxima Centauri

Gemma Therese are you able to look at the bread and wine used during alleged Holy Communion? Are you able to comtemplate the bread and wine and look logically at the possibility that it is just bread and wine, that it is not the blood and body of Christ?
I bet you can't. If you stop believing in the transformation of the bread and wine your Church will say you are in mortal sin. You're too scared of mortal sin.
Unless you are free to look at all things which are logically possible, including those your Church doesn't like, you are not a freethinker.

Radorth

(Choir claps)

That's what most all the founders said while they were praising Christ. But then they were free-thinkers, unlike yourself. That's what the skeptics Durant and Wells said, but after a moment's thought, refused to blame it on Christ or his immediate followers. In fact Well's enthusiasm for the message of Jesus shames most Christians.

I understand. Making such distinctions is painful.

Yeah North Korea, Iran, Iraq, China- all those happy places.

Rad

Starboy

Radorth, tell it to all the native peoples who have lost just about all of their culture and all they got for it was "the kingdom of god". They were bamboozled by intolerant bastards that thought what they were doing was good for the “poor” natives. Tolerance is putting up with ideas you don't like. You don't have to agree with them, but you understand that others have a right to think and feel as they do. Get the point? Christians have nothing to be proud of in that department. Their atrocious behavior is a natural by product of being convinced that they are absolutely right. Just like you Radorth.

Starboy

Amos

Would you agree that a believer is somebody who believes in things, God in this case, about whom he/she has no direct knowledge. Upon this belief the persons acts, and is willing to follow instructions as given to him/her by the church. This is called faith in things unseen and because they remain not seen by the believer they beg for understanding. This is especially true if the instructions are correct and so when faith finds understanding faith itself will be annihilated thru understanding. In a sense this is much like fixing your car because there is a wrench for every nut and without experience the first time we fix our car we must do it one nut at the time upon the instructions given to us. With experience we require less faith and soon we know how to do it without instructions (such knowledge is called an ousia or eidetic image).

It is when faith finds understanding that we are called Christians and until such time has come are we believers because we can't be both, gnostic (Christian) and agnostic (believer). To become gnostic the parousia is required and so after parousia we can't make anymore ousia's or our parousia was never the end of our search for understanding (last round of samsara).

Remember here that I speak of the strict definition of the word Christian.

Amos

In Catholicism the concept sin has the attraction of the forbidden fruit because we have the sacrament of Confession as equalizer. Yes, the concept sin is much like a stimulant towards freethought, don't you think? I mean we all know how sweet it is to nibble from the forbidden fruit because in our human condition we are all the same. The Church just saw this as sunny opportunity to work this for their own benefit.

Starboy

Thanks for the clarification, but I am still baffled as to what this has to do with Christianity. Can you give me a definition of what you think a Christian is? And while you are at it can you give me the origins of ousia and parousia. I have noticed that a great deal of what you attempt to explain seems to boil down to word play. It’s as if the words themselves mean more to you than is implied by their use in context.

Starboy

Amos

A Christian has been set free from the law and is a New Testament man. He can not sin because the laws were given to Moses for the conviction of sin. That means, no law=no sin. Why else do you think Catholics are Catholic and not Christian? Further, if Christians were believers there would be temples in the New Jerusalem.

An "ousia" is for Aristotle what a "form" was for Plato and the Parousia was for Aristotle what the Ultimate (or Final) Form was for Plato.

It is not word play because they are not my words. In Buddhism the Parousia is called "Awakening" after the "final round of samsara" and in Catholicism it is called the "final mass" or the Christ-mass because that of which Christmas is symbolic for is followed by the New Heaven and New Earth as confirmed by the Magi at Epiphany.