Odemus

No need to be cryptic. Please explain, I am genuinely curious.

When it comes to assertions like spontaneous generation etc. etc., you are content to believe they are natural claims? Why wouldn't you regard a position which claims a single celled self replicating organism emerged from a bowl of primordial soup with the same skeptisism as a position that states God created life?

In other words how do you quantify the value of your doubt in either scenario? or, what objectively makes one scenario more believable than another?

Goliath

Odemus,

Uhhh....how and when was I being cryptic? I thought I was being straightforward. Oh well, let me reexplain.

You said:

I am an atheist, and I do not assert that "life sprang from the inanimate."

Your guess is therefore demonstrably incorrect.

What do you mean by "spontaneous generation?" If you mean abiogenesis, then I make no assertions about abiogenesis. Therefore I have no belief as to whether abiogenesis is a natrual claim.

I do. I have absolutely no beliefs whatsoever regarding the supernatural or the beginning of the universe. Why do you seem unwilling to comprehend this simple fact?

Sincerely,

Goliath

Adrian Selby

"Why wouldn't you regard a position which claims a single celled self replicating organism emerged from a bowl of primordial soup with the same skeptisism as a position that states God created life?"

From my point of view I'd say that the former has at least some chance of being proved, whereas the latter, well, when has God (whatever that is) ever been something that we can not only trust, but prove.

Adrian

Koyaanisqatsi

By "God" are we to assume you mean a mystical, ineffable, invisible, omnipotent fairy god king that magically blinked everything into existence in order to punish it for not obeying him, as in the Judeo/Christian bible?

Would that be the God you're asking us to consider as just as logical an explanation for existence as the overwhelming amount of evidence that exists from just about every single field of science proving the theory of Evolution true?

Fictional creatures from ancient Middle-Eastern warrior-deity cult mythologies do not factually exist.

Unless you have any compelling evidence to the contrary, of course?

Have you ever talked to a burning bush? Seen the dead rise from their graves and walk around--other than in a work of fiction, of course? Is there any compelling evidence at all that the Earth and the Universe were created in six days? Or that it was created some 6,000 years ago?

If not, then the Bible would be a work of fiction.

And make no mistake, you can't just dismiss Genesis or the story of Adam and Eve without dismissing Jesus. The whole thing collapses once any thread is pulled.

Conversely, the amount of evidence and argumentation that supports the theory of Evolution is overwhelmingly convincing.

Does that answer your question?

[ June 18, 2002: Message edited by: Koyaanisqatsi ]</p>

Odemus

It isn't that I am unwilling to comprehend 'this simple fact'. You aren't telling me what it is that you do believe, and that is what I am addressing.

How do you consider yourself a free thinker if you have no beliefs?

Mageth

Why wouldn't you regard a position which claims a single celled self replicating organism emerged from a bowl of primordial soup with the same skeptisism as a position that states God created life?

Since there are an estimated 500 creation myths among today's religions, if you assume life requires a supernatural explanation, how do you determine which supernatural explanation is the correct one? Since they're "supernatural", all are equally viable.

Life exists on earth. At one time life didn't exist on earth. Abiogenisis is the simplest explanation for this fact. Supernatural explanations merely make the problem more complex, and there's no evidence that lends credence to any of them.

DarkBronzePlant

Hi Odemus,

The only safe thing that you can assume about atheists is that they lack belief in any god. Opinions and beliefs vary widely among atheists with regards to topics such as the origin of life.

Another thing to consider is that no atheists (scientists studying the field excluded) base their entire lives around their beliefs regarding if and how life sprang forth. Since the manner in which life came to be really has no bearing on our day-to-day lives, there isn't a need for strong empirical evidence one way or the other. However, if one is to base one's entire existence on a belief, then I'd say there needs to be very strong empirical evidence in support of that belief.

Mageth

It isn't that I am unwilling to comprehend 'this simple fact'. You aren't telling me what it is that you do believe, and that is what I am addressing.

Forgive me for answering for Goliath, but he's told you more than once that he holds no "beliefs" on the matters in question.

How do you consider yourself a free thinker if you have no beliefs?

I haven't heard him 1) say that he considers himself a "free thinker," or 2) say that he has no beliefs.

Ryanfire

Then how do you, with your 5 senses, concoct such a concept of god in the first place? God is incomprehensible, yet we manage to make him comprehensible to our human senses. Do we know god? or not know god? which is it?

If a god can be comprehended by humans, then we are gods.

If a god can't be comprehended, don't tell us what god is, or claim to know what it is. Religion and the concept of god fail right there!!!

Everything you percieve tells you there is no supernatural being other than the fact a book, or person has told you how to perceive existence as such, and you have absolutely no proof of there being a god, other than hearsay, just like every other theist out there.

I can write about my pet goldfish having the ability to turn water into gold. Do I expect you to beleive in such hearsay? Or devote a whole religion to worship his water to gold turning power? You would want to see(sense) the proof!

The proof is truth. Not a book, a concept, a story, a hypothesis, or hearsay. Just admit the whole concept of god and religion is man's way of dealing with fear of the unknown!

Ryan

[ June 18, 2002: Message edited by: Ryanfire ]</p>

Goliath

Ah, ok. Here is a complete and total list of things that I believe regarding the supernatural:

Nothing.

I wasn't aware that a freethinker need have a belief on any given topic.

Sincerely,

Goliath