viscousmemories

On that point (emphasis mine), we fully agree.

luvluv

Got a lot of mileage out of that typo, there, viscous.

christ-on-a-stick

I just had the strangest sensation of dizziness, the room was spinning... oh geez, it must be from all the going around in circles!!!!

Luvluv -

When I posted earlier today I had some more comments in mind but in retrospect, I think it's time for me to say night-night on this thread - although it has been (sincerely) thought-provoking and certainly hasn't hurt my typing speed and post count, I don't feel that I have anything further to add that would be productive to any ongoing discussion.

~Til we meet again!

luvluv

I want to say that I only go through all of these discussions, ultimately, because I want to help. I realize that you folks are for the most part adults and I'm not trying to suggest that I can run your lives for you better than you can. But it is my sincere belief that our societies view of sex is severly skewed, and that this perspective is having a destructive effect on our world. Believe it or not, I hate talking about sex. These kind of discussions depress me more than any other type I engage in on II. I always leave the board thinking that everybody on here hates me or I feel bad about myself for beating up on people emotionally. Everytime I start one of these conversations on sex, I dread coming over here to answer the questions because I know when the sex issue is brought up people just take everything too personally. I'm not doing this for my health or because I like being criticized and attacked. I wish I didn't have to say any of these things at all, but I say them because nobody else does.

So I really want to make the request that we stop personalizing everything. Can we talk about sex without taking everything so personally? I would like just once to participate in a discussion about sex without being asked if I'm a virgin or how many people I've slept with. I am not trying to control anybody or make anybody feel bad about themselves, so far as I can help it. I am really speaking as a concerned citizen. I turn on the television and I see a culture with very unhealthy attitudes about sex, about the role of women (as sex objects), and about the definition of masculinity (as promiscuity). I work with young peopole whose lives are effected by these attitudes. Young women with no real guidance dressing like they see girls in rap videos, doing the things they hear in rap songs, and having no sense of who they are or where they are going or what their worth is as human beings. Sex gets drapped over like a veneer over their lives. It gets pushed down their throats as "natural" and they are encouraged to engage in it before they have any idea who they are or what they want from life. Too often, their sex lives decide for them to a large extent who they will be, either by unexpected pregnancy or heartbreak or by a bad reputation.

We lie to them about sex. We set them up for disaster by giving them all the technical information they need but none of the personal, emotional, or spiritual information. We act like those issues are non-existent. There is no source of information about the spiritual, emotional, and personal for young people, but images of pure sexuality bombard them from every angle in our popular media. Quite often the Christian response to this is overly religious and not adequate to the task. I want to try to develop some form of ethical program based on an ethical system everyone can agree on to teach children about the implications of sex. To teach them that the images they see on television are lies that are designed to influence them to buy products, they are not guidlines on how you should look or how you should live. I want an ethical system (Possibly one that makes no reference to a deity) in the sexual education programs of the schools. I think we do children an ENORMOUS disservice and put them in harms way when we act as if the sex act was totally removed from any moral context. This is why I am so adamant about this issue. You folks can try to paint me into a corner and imagine me as your father or your priest or something but that is not who I am. I'm a 26 year black man who lives in and near some financially depressed areas and who lives in an area which is devestated by the consequences of the sexual ethics of our age. I am not advocating for all these things because I want you all to convert to Christianity (I do, but that's another issue). I want kids to have moral, spiritual resources to enable them to combat the bombardment of images about sex that surround them. These images are lies, and nobody has bothered to tell them as much.

Viti

luvluv...oh jeez...dammit what is it about you that gets under my skin??!! I do not hate you for gawdsakes you just frustrate me to no end.

I was raised that my body was ME (not some separate entity to be owned as in "mine") and to do with it as I pleased; and I should never use it in a way that I was not comfortable with, not let anyone tell me what I could or could not do with it, nor let anyone violate me. This sense of confidence and esteem and personal sovereignty is the best defense against the outside forces you are talking about.

luvluv

Lady Shea:

I totally agree, but these notions don't get one third of the play in our culture as does unrestrained sexuality. Now I know the adults promoting these images know better but the kids receiving them do not, and nobody says anything to them.

P.S.

I knew you'd be back.

Viti

Well, we can't change everyone...but I can teach my kids these things, and you can teach your kids and everyone here can teach their kids and we have a start right?

And shut up...I only came back cuz you made me feel bad dammit.

luvluv

Lady Shea:

... you wuv me...

Gurdur

Then I strongly suggest you cut out the personal attacks.

luvluv

Suggestion noted.