Asha'man

Ya know, the more I think about this statement, the more insulted I become. I need to vent a little.
{rant}
There is absolutely no way that a modern astronomer could ignore the laws of thermodynamics. They are as fundamental to stellar mechanics as gravity and fusion.

It would be more believable to claim that a modern doctor was ignorant about the existance of the lung in a human patient.
{/rant}

Dr Rick

I've just about had it up to my gills with this nonsense.

CodeMason

Take a beaker and fill it with formaldehyde (CH2O) and ammonia (NH3) solutions. Leave it out until all the water has evaporated, and what you are left with is shimmering crystals of hexamethylenetetramine (C6H12N4). This has the structure of six methylene (CH2) groups attached to four nitrogens, in a rather complex 3D arrangement. Now my question is, seeing as hexamethylenetetramine is more complex than both of its reactants, would the creationist cry "order from disorder" and claim chemistry violates the second law?

Pantera

<a href="http://www2.chem.ucsb.edu/~rharrison/cslite/hexmta.html" target="_blank">Here's</a> the complex 3D arrangement for anyone who's interested. (May take a minute or two to load).

CodeMason

Thanks for the link Pantera. Too bad it crashed my Lucifer-spawned IE6.

Simulation

Here's his lasted response. I again asked him to come here, but I guess he doesn't want to.

"I don't need to debate any longer what the evidence shows for it'self. Anybody that is confused can read volumes about several basic facts that cannot be refuted.

1. The trend in the physical world is breakdown, and always has been. There may be instances, things can be built up, but it will not last indefinetely. Evolution cannot break this overall trend, which is the 2loT. Law.

2. Embryology is one of the biggest obstacles for evolution because of it's complexity. What evolutionists cannot explain is how the first strand of DNA came about, because you need protein to make it, but in order to have protein, you need DNA, but in order to have DNA, you need protein.........

3. Genetic mutations and disorders are rare. Most people that have disorders caused by a mutation don't think it advantageous. Once again another example of order proceeding to disorder.

If you were walking through the desert, and found a pen lying on the ground, would you assume that all the parts of that pen just formed by chance, randomly got blown there and self assembled? The complexity of a pen is miniscule to that of a protein, which is miniscule to that of a cell, and so on and so on.

Look at what the evidence shows you."

Pantera

I don't normally dwell on spelling and grammatical errors, but this brand new variation on the its/it's confusion had me ROTFLMAO!

CodeMason

So he admits his argument is bullshit, but grasps at the final straw that it "can't go on indefinitely"? It's not surprising he won't continue to debate. Ask him for his equations showing what the rate of decay is, and when evolution will reach this event horizon. Of course we know it will end when the sun dies out, but he can't have this.
Oh yes we can, it's called RNA.
Make sure he knows every human has on average 4-6 new mutations in non-junk DNA. Then tell him how often beneficial mutations have been observed.
Ask him to kindly stop ripping off Paley, then inform him that there is a mechanism that can create such complex things, it's called evolution.

sansha

Please help me. I don't know if you need a physics degree to grasp all this 2LoT stuff but I don't understand how on earth it has anything to do with evolution, or babies growing from a sperm and an egg, or a snowflake or whatever.

Can someone please point me in the direction of Thermodynamics for dummies reading?

Thanks.

CodeMason

All this confusion about the meaning of entropy probably arose from mixing up Shannon's information theoretic definition with that of thermodynamics.