Freethought & Rationalism Archive

RufusAtticus · 01-17-2003, 05:43 AM

Why would professionals leave items in a patients body?

The obvious answer is that they don't.

Clealy, Satan created these people with scapels and forceps already in their bodies. It's just that these innocent doctors get blamed for it. And if you looked at the statistics it's clear that the creationist doctors are the ones getting blamed. I guess it's just the beast with two backs testing their faith. . . .

Wyz_sub10 · 01-17-2003, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by thebeave
Sorry, I was just yanking your chain. Just wanted to see if there were any Seinfeld fans out there.

:banghead: Probably should have realized that.

Slavik91 · 01-17-2003, 02:22 PM

Maybe O.R.s should have metal detectors, so you could scan the body for your rolex.

cfgauss · 01-17-2003, 03:25 PM

lol. That's the worst thing that a doctor can hear after surgery. "Hey, didn't you have a Rolex on earlier?"

ps418 · 01-17-2003, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mad Kally
The circulating nurses are always sitting around reading magazines and telling jokes.

I've heard that one in six medications given in a hospital is in error.

I've seen varying statistics similar to that one, some lower, some higher. Of course, I'm sure there is plenty of variation from facility to facility, and between methods used to determine the error rate (e.g. incident reports vrs direct observation).

Quote:

We evaluated factors associated with the 430,586 medication errors and 17,338 medication errors that adversely affected patient care outcomes. Medication errors occurred in 5.07% of the patients admitted each year to these hospitals. Each hospital experienced a medication error every 22.7 hours (every 19.73 admissions). Medication errors that adversely affected patient care outcomes occurred in 0.25% of all patients admitted to these hospitals/year. Each hospital experienced a medication error that adversely affected patient care outcomes every 19.23 days (or every 401 admissions).

Bond CA, Raehl CL, Franke T., 2001. Medication errors in United States hospitals.Pharmacotherapy (9):1023-36

Quote:

OBJECTIVES: Medication error rate (TEM) is seen as the performance rate of the process leading from drug prescription to drug administration. Jury-les-Metz Psychiatric Hospital conducted a pilot study whose aim was to determine feasibility of drug error rate calculation. METHODS: TEM was calculated as the number of errors divided by the number (n) of all the doses ordered. Four different steps of the process were studied with a specific rate for each step: drug prescription error rate (TEMp), drug delivery calculation error rate (TEMr), drug missing before administration rate (TEMm) and nursing error in drug preparing rate (TEMc). RESULTS: TEMp (n = 15,699): 1.92% [1.74-2.10], TEMr (n = 3457): 2.7% [2.2-3.2], TEMm (n = 3457): 6.9% [6.1-7.7], TEMc (n = 956): 5.9% [4.4-7.4].

Belkacem K, Lepaux DJ, Oliger R., 2001. Medication error rate in the hospital setting: a pilot study at the Jury-les-Metz Hospital Center. Presse Med 30(16):785-9

gilly54 · 01-17-2003, 09:01 PM

An easy way to check for hardware or sponges in the patient is to do a quick fluoro or x-ray. These units are always at the ready in the OR. I would think that the cost of an x-ray will be a lot cheaper than a lawsuit. I'm surprised this quick check isn't routine.

Corona688 · 01-18-2003, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gilly54
An easy way to check for hardware or sponges in the patient is to do a quick fluoro or x-ray. These units are always at the ready in the OR. I would think that the cost of an x-ray will be a lot cheaper than a lawsuit. I'm surprised this quick check isn't routine.

Well, problem with Xrays is the radiation... what's a flouro?

sakrilege · 01-18-2003, 04:30 PM

What is Flouroscopy

Ernest Sparks · 01-18-2003, 08:42 PM

Performance of surgical procedures needs to be changed to add one more team member: a detail logger. This person has the responsibility of logging each action taken on an OR event logging computer. Date/time is automatically generated. Everyone must announce what they are doing while they do it. This is logged immediately, regardless of outcome. At closing time, the logger keys a read out request. Everything used on the patient during the procedure is listed (in inverse order), so the team can be sure nothing is left in the patient that should not be left in the patient. To cover the semi-chaos of emergency procedures, perhaps artificial intelligence software with a microphone system could be used for the logging.

gilly54 · 01-19-2003, 10:56 AM

Well, problem with Xrays is the radiation...

The amount of radiation given in one x-ray or quick fluoro is extremely minimal. To give some perspective, the yearly amount of radiation a patient can receive to their WHOLE BODY is .5 rem. A typical x-ray is measured in the thousandths of a rem, plus only a part of the body is exposed in a radiograph, not the whole body. Fluroscopy does expose more than film radiography, but still a quick fluoro shot is minimal.

Our bodies receive about 80 millirems (thousandths of a rem) each year from natural background radiation: 28 from cosmic rays, 26 from the Earth, and 27 from our own bodies. (We naturally produce a radioactive isotope of potassium, K-40, in our bodies.)

So, not to worry. If I every have to have major surgery, I'm going to INSIST on a quick x-ray before they close me up!

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01-17-2003, 05:43 AM	#11
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	Why would professionals leave items in a patients body? The obvious answer is that they don't. Clealy, Satan created these people with scapels and forceps already in their bodies. It's just that these innocent doctors get blamed for it. And if you looked at the statistics it's clear that the creationist doctors are the ones getting blamed. I guess it's just the beast with two backs testing their faith. . . .

01-17-2003, 02:22 PM	#13
Slavik91 Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 169	Maybe O.R.s should have metal detectors, so you could scan the body for your rolex.

01-17-2003, 03:25 PM	#14
cfgauss Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 108	lol. That's the worst thing that a doctor can hear after surgery. "Hey, didn't you have a Rolex on earlier?"

01-17-2003, 09:01 PM	#16
gilly54 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Almaden, California Posts: 917	An easy way to check for hardware or sponges in the patient is to do a quick fluoro or x-ray. These units are always at the ready in the OR. I would think that the cost of an x-ray will be a lot cheaper than a lawsuit. I'm surprised this quick check isn't routine.

01-18-2003, 04:30 PM	#18
sakrilege Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cleveland, OH, USA Folding@Home Godless Team Posts: 6,211	What is Flouroscopy

01-18-2003, 08:42 PM	#19
Ernest Sparks Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Portland, OR USA Posts: 1,248	Performance of surgical procedures needs to be changed to add one more team member: a detail logger. This person has the responsibility of logging each action taken on an OR event logging computer. Date/time is automatically generated. Everyone must announce what they are doing while they do it. This is logged immediately, regardless of outcome. At closing time, the logger keys a read out request. Everything used on the patient during the procedure is listed (in inverse order), so the team can be sure nothing is left in the patient that should not be left in the patient. To cover the semi-chaos of emergency procedures, perhaps artificial intelligence software with a microphone system could be used for the logging.

01-19-2003, 10:56 AM	#20
gilly54 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Almaden, California Posts: 917	Well, problem with Xrays is the radiation... The amount of radiation given in one x-ray or quick fluoro is extremely minimal. To give some perspective, the yearly amount of radiation a patient can receive to their WHOLE BODY is .5 rem. A typical x-ray is measured in the thousandths of a rem, plus only a part of the body is exposed in a radiograph, not the whole body. Fluroscopy does expose more than film radiography, but still a quick fluoro shot is minimal. Our bodies receive about 80 millirems (thousandths of a rem) each year from natural background radiation: 28 from cosmic rays, 26 from the Earth, and 27 from our own bodies. (We naturally produce a radioactive isotope of potassium, K-40, in our bodies.) So, not to worry. If I every have to have major surgery, I'm going to INSIST on a quick x-ray before they close me up!

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