Cthulhu

Actually, there is already overwhelming evidence for hypnotism. Nothing supernatural or "miraculous" about it.

Would you like to make a comparison of documented healing as a result of modern medical technology vs. those that are ascribed to "faith" or "miracles"?


If people spouting gibberish were evidence of God, your posts would have converted the lot of us.

After-death experience is a misnomer. If it was truly after death, then the report would not exist because the individual would be dead. Near-death experience is a more accurate term. And from earlier in this thread:

Hours? Days?

Document one case for me where a person who had been dead for days came back to life, Rad. Just one. (And I mean something that was scientifically documented, not some anecdotal account from five hundred years ago.)

I did a fair amount of reading on the subject of NDEs and OBEs when I was a bit younger, and IIRC, the longest anyone was allegedly dead before being resuscitated was about 10-15 minutes. Certainly not days.

I'm curious, if you believe NDEs are evidence for your faith, how come they can be reproduced in the laboratory by placing electrodes on certain portions of the brain?

Also, why do so many of these OBE and NDE experiences seem to contradict Scripture? (So much so that many Christians consider them a deception by Satan, such as the individual who wrote the book Blinded by the Light.)

And how do you feel about the experiences of Native American and Aboriginal shamans? Are their experiences just as valid as Christians? Are their experiences evidence that their spiritual belief systems are legitimate?

[edited to add: didn't mean to steal your point about so-called "after-death" experiences, Mageth. Looks like we had the same thought at the same time. It's a miracle! Praise Jebus! ]

Radorth

I don't recall any preachers swinging watches or telling people they would enter a deep sleep. Hypnotists cannot cause such permanent radical change in behavior, not keep patients under it's influence for prolonged periods. Hypnotised people do not manifest the signs we see in the NT. Yikes, it's a red strawman. Where's the gang?

Radorth

Well at least you don't deny them out of hand. That's commendable.

Given your number of conversions on your own turf, it makes one wonder what you are sprouting.

That's OK, Seymour found 200,000,000 listeners and was declared by a Harvard professor (in a rare flash of objectivity) to be the most influential minister of the 20th century. Of course God uses ignorant, one-eyed black men when he can't find geniuses like us to do his will.

Well no. Many were clinically dead for hours. There is a Methodist minister (ex-atheist) who claims to have risen in a mortuary after 3 days. But I suppose he could have lied about it and pretended to convert. If you want to go accuse thousands of people of being deluded, go ahead. I don't resort to such cynical assertions every time someone disagrees with me.

Show me one that compares with Jung's testimony (another ex-atheist I believe).

Where did you do your "fair amount of reading"? In "Skeptic" magazine?

Rad

Yellum Notnef

I asked if you'd be supplying any evidence for your claims and all I get in return is another demonstration of your rabid and bitter hatred of those who think your fancy little god might not have been a real guy.

I know that your prefer baseless assertions over evidence,but PLEASE try to put a lid on the hatred and learn to accept that some of us don't believe the same things you do.

Radorth

Heh. So you think there is merit to the argument that Luke was a woman named Paul who wote Acts about 140 AD I take it. Ammazing what "rational" people will ask you to take by unquestioning faith, to prove HJ was a myth. Thanks, but Durant still did a thousand times the damage JM'ers will ever do by essentially treating people like morons. Some of them must think the world is 95% idiots.

Rad

Cthulhu

Once again, you display your complete ignorance about a subject. To steal a favorite Radorthism: read up on the subject and get back to me.

Yet another instance of redirection and deflection. I was talking about revivals, now you're babbling about the NT.

Of course hypnotism played no part in those "signs" manifested in the NT, Rad, because those "signs" never occured.

Probably consulting psychiatric manuals in an attempt to classify your particular form of delusion.

Yellum Notnef

Surely there must be documentation for this incredible miracle.
Please supply it.

The whole "after 3 days" bit sound has an uncanny resemblance to the Jesus drama and it's making my bullshit meter go off the chart.

Yellum Notnef

I never said anything about Luke being a woman named Paul and this has NOTHING to do with what we were talking about.

And I don't think 95% of the world are idots. Most people just know what they are told and thats that for them.
The idiots are those among them who have been shown that what they were told is a lie and yet they STILL continue to believe and defend it.

Radorth

Uh huh. Well there you go. It must be bull because there's a reasonable coincidence only a cynic would make anything of. Go find it yourself, if you're so open minded. I read them because I wanted to hear and ponder them. They are no help to my faith. Everybody doesn't see Jesus or heaven or hell (which is why most Christians avoid discussing them I think). Jung just seems to fly around the earth itself.

And of course this thread is titled "Calling yourself a Christian" and it wasn't me who posted the old "Der ain't no evidence" assertion. Shame. It could have been an interesting discussion actually.

Rad

Cthulhu

No, Rad, I'm not in the snake-oil business like you. I'm not attempting to convert anyone to anything. (And since when is this my "home turf"?)

Thanks for sharing another irrelevant and pointless anecdote with us.

Then give me the damn documentation. Why is this so difficult for you?

I suggest you take that nice little strawman into the garden where it might serve a purpose by keeping the crows away.

Once again, show me the documentation on these "thousands of people" who were dead for hours and days and came back to life.

I would be glad to. Just give me permission to open up your skull and we'll get started.

Another attempted deflection, but I'll answer it anyway. As it so happens, I used to be very interested in the "paranormal", and at the time I was hardly a skeptic. I ingested it all: UFOs, NDEs and OBEs, psychic powers,etc. You name it, I was a sucker for it. Specifically with the subject of NDEs, I read any number of books: Raymond Moody, Dannion Brinkley, and quite a few others whose name I can't recall off the top of my head. But they weren't skeptical examinations;far from it.