Freethought & Rationalism Archive

sphinx wui · 06-30-2003, 10:44 AM

Consequent Infidel wrote,
you are here simplifing the issue of belief a little bit too much...don't you think , omar?

No, I don�t think so honey.

Consequent Infidel wrote,
- I speak the egptian-arabic because its now the offical language used here

What you mean by official language? It sound to me that the government enforces people to speak Arabic while they want to speak Spanish! It is the language of people here and you know its source and how it came to Egypt. Speaking Arabic doesn�t make you a Muslim religiously cause Christians also in Egypt speak Arabic but for sure it makes you culturally Muslim.

Consequent Infidel wrote,
I don't see how does all that puts me in the term you invented, "a muslim cultrally" .

I didn�t invent anything, the term �Muslim culturally� was always there. Makram Ebied, a Christian member in Wafd party in the forties used it when he was asked why he had many Islamic books in his library and he answered them � I am religiously Christian but culturally I am Muslim� you got it or no?

sphinx wui · 06-30-2003, 10:46 AM

Inconnu wrote,
Whats wrong with whores?

Nothing at all, I have complete respect for them; I don�t know why people get offended by it? You have one for me?

Biff the unclean · 06-30-2003, 10:58 AM

The opening post about "making excuses for pedophilia" is totally unjustified IMO and seems to me to arise more out of a desire to find fault with Islam specifically than to criticize elderly superstition.

In my opinion on the other hand, it is ridiculous to make excuses not to find fault with a religion solely because it is a religion.

The term "child bride," as in Romeo & Juliet, refers to a girl who has reached puberty. Not a six or a nine year old.

But look at all the rest of the nonsense about Mohamed that is winked at just because it's "religious." Not only is the guy pedophile, but he hides himself away in a cave and when he comes out he claims that a book that he has written was dictated to him by an Archangel who in turn got it from God. Where in the 21st Century, anywhere in the modern world, would a person who did these same things not be considered mentally ill?

Let's say some guy in Manhattan gives his wife milk and cookie money and the drops her off at her fourth grade class. Then on the subway he types out messages on his laptop the Archangel Gabriel is relaying to him from God. He knows they are from God because passages are repeated again and again. Is there anyone in this enlightened age of ours who wouldn't think that here was a person with deep psychological problems who needed help?

Sure back in the dark ages after the Roman civilization collapsed the primitive's back then might have thought such nuttiness came from another world. Their lack of knowledge and degraded society might be seen as an excuse for them revering mental illness. If we look at the story of Abraham we even find a tradition of reverencing certain types of psychotic behavior.

But we no longer have this excuse, we know better. While it might not be fair to condemn these earlier people for believing such craziness it is certainly fair to condemn modern people for believing it. To say that the guy who comes out of the IRT with the uncreated word of God on the hard drive of his Apple should be institutionalized but that the guy who comes out of a cave with the uncreated word of God scribbled on some parchment is a Prophet is extreme bias.

River · 06-30-2003, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
The opening post about "making excuses for pedophilia" is totally unjustified IMO and seems to me to arise more out of a desire to find fault with Islam specifically than to criticize elderly superstition.

In my opinion on the other hand, it is ridiculous to make excuses not to find fault with a religion solely because it is a religion.

The term "child bride," as in Romeo & Juliet, refers to a girl who has reached puberty. Not a six or a nine year old.

But look at all the rest of the "nonsense" about Prophet Mohamed ( may peace and blessings be upon him)that is winked at just because it's "religious."

Yes, nine year olds can reach puberty, if the circumstance ( desert aridity, hormonal interplay) allows for it.

Biff the unclean · 06-30-2003, 02:15 PM

Yes, nine year olds can reach puberty, if the circumstance ( desert aridity, hormonal interplay) allows for it.

I seem to remember you saying you were attending medical school. Yet you can write this and some other twisted nonsense trying to get sperm from a man's chest. If it isn't too late demand your tuition back and transfer to an accredited school.

It's so sad when modern people are fixated on ancient magical books. They try to twist reality to fit the books misrepresentations instead of admitting that the book got many things wrong. I suppose it's the "romance" of the ancient that is the problem.
Mohamed comes out of his cave into the sun sounds a lot like Aladdin. You expect magic, genies and flying carpets. Mohamed comes out of the IND into midtown and you don't expect that at all.
But if "midtown Mohamed" told you that he had married a nine-year-old you would call the police. If he told you that Angels had given him the uncreated word of God you would call the mental institution. You would not make excuses for him. You wouldn't say "the kid came from Arizona, they grow up fast there." If he told you that sperm came from the chest you would laugh at him for being so ignorant.
Yet when "ancient Mohamed" does exactly the same things that "modern Mohamed" is condemned for there is a big song and dance to accommodate him. This is pure bias.

River · 06-30-2003, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
Yes, nine year olds can reach puberty, if the circumstance ( desert aridity, hormonal interplay) allows for it.

I seem to remember you saying you were attending medical school. Yet you can write this and some other twisted nonsense trying to get sperm from a man's chest. If it isn't too late demand your tuition back and transfer to an accredited school.

It's so sad when modern people are fixated on ancient magical books. They try to twist reality to fit the books misrepresentations instead of admitting that the book got many things wrong. I suppose it's the "romance" of the ancient that is the problem.
Mohamed comes out of his cave into the sun sounds a lot like Aladdin. You expect magic, genies and flying carpets. Mohamed comes out of the IND into midtown and you don't expect that at all.
But if "midtown Mohamed" told you that he had married a nine-year-old you would call the police. If he told you that Angels had given him the uncreated word of God you would call the mental institution. You would not make excuses for him. You wouldn't say "the kid came from Arizona, they grow up fast there." If he told you that sperm came from the chest you would laugh at him for being so ignorant.
Yet when "ancient Mohamed" does exactly the same things that "modern Mohamed" is condemned for there is a big song and dance to accommodate him. This is pure bias.

Listen, I have done enough research in the realm of Science to understand how I see the world. It is your imaginary way of thinking...and your warped vision about how muslims should lead their lives. Why do stereotype 1.6 Billion people? Do you think we all smell funny , wear turbans and have multiple wives? I did not say sperm originates from the chest. That is nonsense. Do not put words into my mouth.

Fay Ghotrie · 06-30-2003, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
It's so sad when modern people are fixated on ancient magical books. They try to twist reality to fit the books misrepresentations instead of admitting that the book got many things wrong.

Let, speak on it, brother!

Rational BAC · 06-30-2003, 03:09 PM

Come on River----

You are stretching the point considerably. A 9 year old girl is not a 13 year old girl. At any time in history.

Admittedly the onset of puberty in modern times has decreased somewhat-------but 9? And that is just modern times and modern food or modern constant stimulation on TV or whatever is causing the onset of puberty to be lowered today. -- That does not count for 1400 years ago.

If that poor young girl reached pubescence at a ridiculously young age due to sexual stimulation of some kind--------it was because that pervert pedophile Muhammed did the stimulating.

River · 06-30-2003, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rational BAC
Come on River----

You are stretching the point considerably. A 9 year old girl is not a 13 year old girl. At any time in history.

Admittedly the onset of puberty in modern times has decreased somewhat-------but 9? And that is just modern times and modern food or modern constant stimulation on TV or whatever is causing the onset of puberty to be lowered today. -- That does not count for 1400 years ago.

If that poor young girl reached pubescence at a ridiculously young age due ---------------of some kind--------it was because that ----------Muhammad (pbuh) did the -------------.

According to ALL sources she was post- pubertal. Prophet Muhammad ( may peace and blessings be upon him) was/ is the greatest human being ever made.[ assuming ongoing-time]

Biff the unclean · 06-30-2003, 04:43 PM

Listen, I have done enough research in the realm of Science to understand how I see the world.
And yet you don't seem to understand what the "scientific method" is
It is your imaginary way of thinking...and your warped vision about how muslims should lead their lives. Why do stereotype 1.6 Billion people?
I see, if you can make Biff seem like he's a bigot then everyone will have to accept all the balderdash you are spewing out. Is that the idea? That would be a lot easier to do than make any logical replies about why you wouldn't accept a present day Mohamed but turn cart wheels to accomidate the one from the dark ages.
Do you think we all smell funny , wear turbans and have multiple wives?
Do you think that the readers of this board are idiots? They have read what I have written--it's still posted for everyone to see. They are wise to your tricks
I did not say sperm originates from the chest. That is nonsense. Do not put words into my mouth.
Consequent Infidel "THE QURAN SAYS THAT SEMEN IS PRODUCED FROM THE BACKBONE AND RIBS"
River "This statement is Anatomically correct....somewhat generalized but still correct�.
�Even though the male sperm is formed in the testes, the blood supply which, is an essential factor to the making of the sperm comes from between the ribs and the back.
The words of the Qur�an are not scientifically invalid, as the words "emanating from a place between the (lower) back and the (lower) ribs", do not necessarily imply "emanating in its final shape" only, but can also cover "initial emanation"."

Biff: so you are doing exactly what I was complaining about. Taking an old magic book and twisting, torturing and misrepresenting reality to try to make the magic book correct. Instead of just simply admitting it wrong.
Since you are telling people left and right on this board that they are wrong I can see that you have no problem doing so with present day people. You reinterpret nothing a single modern day person has to say. But the Koran you make an exception for which shows that you are under a heavy bias. You are not interested in what the actual truth, only what the Koran says is the truth.
The only thing that I think smells bad about you is your willingness to suspend logical thought for the sake of your magical book.

06-30-2003, 10:58 AM	#83
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Comparing apples to apples The opening post about "making excuses for pedophilia" is totally unjustified IMO and seems to me to arise more out of a desire to find fault with Islam specifically than to criticize elderly superstition. In my opinion on the other hand, it is ridiculous to make excuses not to find fault with a religion solely because it is a religion. The term "child bride," as in Romeo & Juliet, refers to a girl who has reached puberty. Not a six or a nine year old. But look at all the rest of the nonsense about Mohamed that is winked at just because it's "religious." Not only is the guy pedophile, but he hides himself away in a cave and when he comes out he claims that a book that he has written was dictated to him by an Archangel who in turn got it from God. Where in the 21st Century, anywhere in the modern world, would a person who did these same things not be considered mentally ill? Let's say some guy in Manhattan gives his wife milk and cookie money and the drops her off at her fourth grade class. Then on the subway he types out messages on his laptop the Archangel Gabriel is relaying to him from God. He knows they are from God because passages are repeated again and again. Is there anyone in this enlightened age of ours who wouldn't think that here was a person with deep psychological problems who needed help? Sure back in the dark ages after the Roman civilization collapsed the primitive's back then might have thought such nuttiness came from another world. Their lack of knowledge and degraded society might be seen as an excuse for them revering mental illness. If we look at the story of Abraham we even find a tradition of reverencing certain types of psychotic behavior. But we no longer have this excuse, we know better. While it might not be fair to condemn these earlier people for believing such craziness it is certainly fair to condemn modern people for believing it. To say that the guy who comes out of the IRT with the uncreated word of God on the hard drive of his Apple should be institutionalized but that the guy who comes out of a cave with the uncreated word of God scribbled on some parchment is a Prophet is extreme bias.

06-30-2003, 04:43 PM	#90
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	sniff, sniff, sniff Listen, I have done enough research in the realm of Science to understand how I see the world. And yet you don't seem to understand what the "scientific method" is It is your imaginary way of thinking...and your warped vision about how muslims should lead their lives. Why do stereotype 1.6 Billion people? I see, if you can make Biff seem like he's a bigot then everyone will have to accept all the balderdash you are spewing out. Is that the idea? That would be a lot easier to do than make any logical replies about why you wouldn't accept a present day Mohamed but turn cart wheels to accomidate the one from the dark ages. Do you think we all smell funny , wear turbans and have multiple wives? Do you think that the readers of this board are idiots? They have read what I have written--it's still posted for everyone to see. They are wise to your tricks I did not say sperm originates from the chest. That is nonsense. Do not put words into my mouth. Consequent Infidel "THE QURAN SAYS THAT SEMEN IS PRODUCED FROM THE BACKBONE AND RIBS" River "This statement is Anatomically correct....somewhat generalized but still correct�. �Even though the male sperm is formed in the testes, the blood supply which, is an essential factor to the making of the sperm comes from between the ribs and the back. The words of the Qur�an are not scientifically invalid, as the words "emanating from a place between the (lower) back and the (lower) ribs", do not necessarily imply "emanating in its final shape" only, but can also cover "initial emanation"." Biff: so you are doing exactly what I was complaining about. Taking an old magic book and twisting, torturing and misrepresenting reality to try to make the magic book correct. Instead of just simply admitting it wrong. Since you are telling people left and right on this board that they are wrong I can see that you have no problem doing so with present day people. You reinterpret nothing a single modern day person has to say. But the Koran you make an exception for which shows that you are under a heavy bias. You are not interested in what the actual truth, only what the Koran says is the truth. The only thing that I think smells bad about you is your willingness to suspend logical thought for the sake of your magical book.

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06-30-2003, 10:44 AM	#81
sphinx wui Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: egypt Posts: 253	Consequent Infidel wrote, you are here simplifing the issue of belief a little bit too much...don't you think , omar? No, I don�t think so honey. Consequent Infidel wrote, - I speak the egptian-arabic because its now the offical language used here What you mean by official language? It sound to me that the government enforces people to speak Arabic while they want to speak Spanish! It is the language of people here and you know its source and how it came to Egypt. Speaking Arabic doesn�t make you a Muslim religiously cause Christians also in Egypt speak Arabic but for sure it makes you culturally Muslim. Consequent Infidel wrote, I don't see how does all that puts me in the term you invented, "a muslim cultrally" . I didn�t invent anything, the term �Muslim culturally� was always there. Makram Ebied, a Christian member in Wafd party in the forties used it when he was asked why he had many Islamic books in his library and he answered them � I am religiously Christian but culturally I am Muslim� you got it or no?

06-30-2003, 10:46 AM	#82
sphinx wui Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: egypt Posts: 253	Inconnu wrote, Whats wrong with whores? Nothing at all, I have complete respect for them; I don�t know why people get offended by it? You have one for me?

06-30-2003, 02:15 PM	#85
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Yes, nine year olds can reach puberty, if the circumstance ( desert aridity, hormonal interplay) allows for it. I seem to remember you saying you were attending medical school. Yet you can write this and some other twisted nonsense trying to get sperm from a man's chest. If it isn't too late demand your tuition back and transfer to an accredited school. It's so sad when modern people are fixated on ancient magical books. They try to twist reality to fit the books misrepresentations instead of admitting that the book got many things wrong. I suppose it's the "romance" of the ancient that is the problem. Mohamed comes out of his cave into the sun sounds a lot like Aladdin. You expect magic, genies and flying carpets. Mohamed comes out of the IND into midtown and you don't expect that at all. But if "midtown Mohamed" told you that he had married a nine-year-old you would call the police. If he told you that Angels had given him the uncreated word of God you would call the mental institution. You would not make excuses for him. You wouldn't say "the kid came from Arizona, they grow up fast there." If he told you that sperm came from the chest you would laugh at him for being so ignorant. Yet when "ancient Mohamed" does exactly the same things that "modern Mohamed" is condemned for there is a big song and dance to accommodate him. This is pure bias.

06-30-2003, 03:09 PM	#88
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	Come on River---- You are stretching the point considerably. A 9 year old girl is not a 13 year old girl. At any time in history. Admittedly the onset of puberty in modern times has decreased somewhat-------but 9? And that is just modern times and modern food or modern constant stimulation on TV or whatever is causing the onset of puberty to be lowered today. -- That does not count for 1400 years ago. If that poor young girl reached pubescence at a ridiculously young age due to sexual stimulation of some kind--------it was because that pervert pedophile Muhammed did the stimulating.

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