Rusting Car Bumper

Paul Vitz has been saying this for a while. Its not new.

Of course, some Christians nod in agreement because as usual they are not critical of those who fufill their preconceived notions in a pseudo-secular "research" mode.

I read some article critisizing Vitz's "research" some time ago but I don't have it on hand. I read it on the web.

However, I recall the article noting that Vitz used a very broad (i.e. unfalsifiable) criteria for deciding when a relationship with a father was "bad." I recall one "bad relationship" was merely because the father did poorly in business. And another was where the father died when the atheist was young. I remember another thing the article noted was that all of Vitz's examples were non-believers raised by Christian parents. He apparently let's this pass without comment.

If anyone can find this article I'd be most appreciative.

DC

Tom Sawyer

I have to disagree with the common consensus here and say that this guy has a point.

I'm not talking about any of the Christian drivel or the Freudian psychobabble. Freud was a cokehead freak who got most everything wrong and his theories aren't given much validity in modern-day psychological circles and are only really used by English majors and people like this guy.

The point that he got right was that a lot of people become atheists because it's the socially acceptable thing to do in their circle. Carlos was right when he said that in athiest circles, it's more acceptable to question belief and that leads people away from religion, but that's not always the case. Most of us accept whatever the group around us says is true, be that religion or atheism. If someone becomes an atheist because he hangs out with atheists and wants to fit in, without giving any thought to why, he's as much of a sheep as someone who's a Methodist because his parents were and he's never considered not being one or why he believes the Methodist theology.

There are a lot of good reasons to become an atheist. Being part of the 'in' crowd is not one of them, however. If you never think about why you believe what you do and don't have the intellectual integrity to put your beliefs to the test but accept the opinions of those around you instead of creating your own, then you aren't worth all that much intellectually. I personally have more respect for a student who goes around a university proselytizing Christ, with all the ridicule and abuse he'll go through for that, but does so because he has examined the facts and come to the conclusion, however erroneously, that that is the correct way than I do for another student who becomes an atheist in order not to be laughed at in his classes.

Honestly, I thought that this was the point the author was getting at when I started reading the article. Then the whole thing just degenerated into useless blather.

rdalin

My father is an atheist (as was my mother). I get along with him just fine. I guess the author has to come up with another theory for those like me.

Richard

Rusting Car Bumper

That's a big "but".

(hehe! no offense intended!)

Atheists are a minority in the U.S. and many atheists become atheists in circumstances which are not welcoming. For example, see the secular support board for many examples where telling ones parents that one is an atheist is a harrowing experience. Further, since atheists are a minority and actively opposed those atheists clearly aren't coming to that position because its merely convenient. In fact, it makes them appear a bit not honest and forthright because they are putting conviction above convenience.

I think that most people will tell you that they would love to find that "in crowd" because it seems to be non-existant.

And I think this case is the pathological exception to the rule in American society if indeed it exists in any significant amounts.

DC

Kosh

Sometimes, a lack of beliefs is just a lack of beliefs.

Tom Sawyer

DigitalChicken,

I'm not sure what things are like in US colleges, but at the university I went to in Canada religion was really frowned upon and people who practiced it were seen as more than a little bit silly. Granted that wasn't the case in all the groups on campus, but it was a prevailing mindset, especially in the philosophy and psychology crowds that I hung out with and the author of the article says that he hung out with. I imagine that things are similar at the big city universities in the US, like in New York and Boston, if not at places like Kansas State.

When hanging around with groups of people that mock religion, like was often done, turning away from religion is less an act of intellectual honesty than of being a sheep and going along with the crowd. That's the point I was making. Also, people who become atheists for that reason are probably as likely to reconvert once their social crowd changes. Then they go on and write articles about how being an athiest is just intellectual dishonesty because for them it was. That reflects badly on all of us, especially those for whom becoming an atheist was a hard life choice made against a very religious upbringing.

Bumble Bee Tuna

I've certainly never seen a crowd where atheism was "in". That's a ridiculous idea. I'm sure a few exist, but they are quite far from the norm.

Meanwhile, I agree with biffman. People with failed relationships with their fathers would need a religion with a father figure to console them. People with good relationships wouldn't need a fantasy father. His hypothesis is not only wrong but the opposite of the truth.

Also, I'm an atheist, I have a good relationship with my father, and I've always been in crowds where atheism wasn't the belief to have.

-B

Shake

Yeah, just wait 'til somebody watches Dogma and thinks that the whole 'Buddy Christ' idea is a good one and will help make religion 'cool'!

happyboy

my father AND mother are religious, my whole family is religious, my friends are religious (but not christian ), and i turned away from God out of all the research i did that pointed out how silly that belief is. now, God is more of a symbol for pure creativity than an actual being to me.

i have wonderful relationships with all the religious believers in my life, especially my father.

happyboy

DMB

He seems to ignore the fact that the alternative to atheism is not necessarily belief in a fatherlike god. He also doesn't explore differences between people who are grounded in religion and then discard it and those who don't have it in the first place.