Michaelson

In Australia this is illegal. New laws enacted in 1997 or 1998 or somewhere about then prohibit that sort of stuff. We don't have X rated videos, we have Non Violent Erotica.

Whether or not I agree with that I'm not sure.

If you look at patterns of criminal behaviour it becomes very clear that it doesn't really work that way. Jail sentences as preventative measures aren't always particularly effective.

Tenpudo

But the jail sentences involved are only half the picture.

This is where the point lies-- the "preventative measure" is the availability of a legal alternative to the illegal behavior. Does this mean that nobody's going to break this law ever again? Hardly. However, it seems irrational to point to some of these offenders and say that they would have never broken the law if the alternative didn't exist.

Also, this is rather after-the-fact, but I wanted to reply to a scenario presented by Michaelson earlier:
The flaw in this scenario is that you've already established the guy as a criminal-- he's going to engage in criminal behavior, regardless of whether he just saw some fake KP and starts stalking a 12-year-old, or if he just watched Baywatch and starts looking for tall blondes to rape. What you seem to be trying to say overall is that access to fake KP is going to cause a segment of the population (to whom it would not have otherwise occurred) to 'try it out' -- this doesn't seem any more valid than the cases mentioned by others earlier about video games causing shooting sprees, etc. (Wasn't there a case in Australia a while back where a security guard got shot and somebody tried to sue Valve -- creators of Half-Life -- for 'rewarding' players for killing the guards? )

Loren Pechtel

Originally posted by ...

One point I'd like to bring up. There's a porn star named Gauge, who is 19 but looks like she's around 15. That's her main selling point, in fact - her pr0n videos show her in schoolgirl outfits, carrying schoolbooks, and so on. One video shows her in her school uniform in a classroom setting having sex with a middle aged man (presumably, a high school junior "putting out" to her teacher for a good grade).

Is this legal? Of course. Gauge is a consenting adult, and she may do whatever she wishes. Is it moral? Let's examine that.

I don't see any problem. I don't buy the notion that somehow being a bit too young means that a woman should not be sexually desirable. Anything past puberty and they certainly are! In reality someone just past puberty isn't mentally ready for sex and one therefore shouldn't have sex with them, but what's the harm in looking at someone who looks like that?
I've got a neice in college that looks even younger. My wife looked 16 when she was 40.

I ask you to think about that awhile. I'm sure you'll quickly see the point. Allowing the pedosexuals a safe outlet for their perversions keeps them sated AND keeps real children safe.

However, you are assuming that porn satisfies rather than stimulates. That assumption, however, makes porn something good instead of bad. Since porn must be bad then your conclusion must be false.

Michaelson

CGI porn, to me, sounds a bit like watching asports game after the event. I doubt it would really be satisfactory for most who wanted to get their hands on it. Maybe I'm wrong on that assumption, but regardless I don't consider your example to be "proof" of anything.

In terms of whether it would reduce the demand of real stuff, I just don't buy it.

And fuck the suggestion that I'm working back from an assumption that porn is bad. Yes, I think porn stimulates. I think the sense in which it satisfies is far more limited. You don't get off to porn and forget about it straight away. And you don't always get off straight away to porn. The images stay with you after watching it. I don't watch someone in an interesting position on a porno and then feel satisfied having seen it. I feel the urge to try it out myself.

Clearly this argument isn't going anywhere. I'm not against porn. I just think there are more issues involved with it than can be addressed by giving it blanket immunity from any sort of censorship.

Valmorian

Provided nobody is harmed in the creation of said pornography, why shouldn't it be covered by the same freedom of speech guarantees as all other expression in free countries?

Loren Pechtel

If you regard it as a good idea. I've seen things in porn that I would be interested in trying with my wife. I've seen other things that I don't have the slightest interest in trying.