Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Amie · 01-20-2003, 03:50 PM

Hi Infinity
do you think everyone has faith in something to some degree?

Hi Helen
I guess I just tend to use the terms interchangably. yaiks.

Thanks Goliath it seems to be a very thin line between the two.

Goliath · 01-20-2003, 03:56 PM

Amie,

Quote:

Thanks Goliath it seems to be a very thin line between the two.

A thin line to be sure, but an unbelievably important one.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Oxymoron · 01-21-2003, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amie
do you think everyone has faith in something to some degree?

No. Religious Faith is choosing to believe something because it suits you and the refusal to validate that believe against external phenomena. This should be contrasted with induction, whereby people "suck it and see" based on past experience.

For example, it's not faith that leads me to assume the sun will rise in the morning, it's pure and simply the fact that for 4 billion iterations previously it has done, nothing has changed since yesterday, therefore it will today. Inductive logic is a vital component of our cognitive ability to model the world effectively. Without it we could not function.

People are able to ignore their mind's insistence that it knows the future (because it reckons it knows the past) for short periods of time. That ain't faith, though, that's open-mindedness. Faith is held by the narrowest of narrow minds because it denies the possibility of its own falsehood, ergo blocking real learning and personal growth.

beyelzu · 01-21-2003, 12:45 AM

so maybe the big difference is atheist know truth and theists know The Truth tm. The Truth tm only comes from faith.

Asha'man · 01-21-2003, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amie
do you think everyone has faith in something to some degree?

Faith is simply belief without supporting evidence.

Personally, I try to rid myself of faith at every chance. I do this by looking at the evidence, and trying not to be deceived by my desires.

rdalin · 01-21-2003, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amie
Hello everyone

I have a question for the atheists here and I thought you may be able to help me understand this.

I believe in God based on my faith. I know that atheists tend to not believe because you have no reasons to and because there is no evidence to support a God belief.
Got me thinking. What would you require to have a God belief? I am thinking it would be a subjective experience for you. However this leads to my next question.

I was recently told that in order to fully answer the question of "what would you require to have a God belief", one would have to be able to define God in order to have that belief. however wouldn't one have to define God in some way to *not* believe?
It seems to me in order to *not* believe in God it must take some level of definition and understanding of what it is you *don't* believe in otherwise your position would be neutral (not a belief, not a non belief)

Am I way off base here?

Thank you for taking the time to answer me, I appreciate it.
I need some coffee

Amie~

I do define the god(s) which I believe don't exist: I lump them all into a category I call 'supernatural gods;' that is, entities capable of transcending the physical laws under which the universe operates. I'm also pretty sure that Greek, Roman or Norse gods are non-existent. That's a shame, though, because they sound like a lot more fun.

Richard

Amie · 01-21-2003, 03:32 PM

Well Oxymoron I completely disagree with you on this statement you made and I think it is rather unfortunate that you think people who have faith have the narrowest of narrow minds:

Quote:

Faith is held by the narrowest of narrow minds because it denies the possibility of its own falsehood, ergo blocking real learning and personal growth.

Having faith in something does not mean that you are unwilling to learn if things turn out differently.

beyelzu · 01-21-2003, 03:35 PM

i am sorry amie,

but quite often having faith means just that. certainly not all the time. but again quite often faith leads to dogma. and dogma can be incredibly resistant to change, regardless of any evidence to the contrary.

edited cuz i really cant spell.

Amie · 01-21-2003, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Asha'man
Faith is simply belief without supporting evidence.

Personally, I try to rid myself of faith at every chance. I do this by looking at the evidence, and trying not to be deceived by my desires.

Hi Asha'man

Is there anything in your life that you believe without having evidence?
Have you ever said to anyone "I have faith in you"?
much love~
Amie

Amie · 01-21-2003, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beyelzu
i am sorry amie,
but quite often having faith means just that. certainly not all the time. but again quite often faith leads to dogma. and dogma can be incredibly resistant to change, regardless of any evidence to the contrary.

Beyelzu I agree with you on this point. Can you believe it?

oh and I kant spel either...my posts are riddled with spelling and grammatical errors. you are in good company.

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01-20-2003, 03:50 PM	#51
Amie Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: New York Posts: 1,626	Hi Infinity do you think everyone has faith in something to some degree? Hi Helen I guess I just tend to use the terms interchangably. yaiks. Thanks Goliath it seems to be a very thin line between the two.

01-21-2003, 12:45 AM	#54
beyelzu Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: the peach state ga I am a metaphysical naturalist Posts: 2,869	so maybe the big difference is atheist know truth and theists know The Truth tm. The Truth tm only comes from faith.

01-21-2003, 03:35 PM	#58
beyelzu Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: the peach state ga I am a metaphysical naturalist Posts: 2,869	i am sorry amie, but quite often having faith means just that. certainly not all the time. but again quite often faith leads to dogma. and dogma can be incredibly resistant to change, regardless of any evidence to the contrary. edited cuz i really cant spell.

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