Roller

Hello Craig and thank you for your valuable input!

I believe I did this when I told him that prohibition is not because of some scientific knowledge (he mentioned how diseases can transfer through blood), but because of goat herder rambling couple of thousand of years ago. And you have another good point that it's a faith issue.

Yep, I reminded him how child’s and mother’s blood mix together in womb so there should be no reason to prohibit transfusion. If Yahweh allowed that, why shouldn't he allow transfusion? And yes, I tried to point him to the fact how JW stance to transplants and transfusion changed couple of times. But it's very hard, if not impossible, to start any process of rational reasoning in his head.
:banghead:
I did, at least partially. He said how JW don't wait for something bad to happen so that they can prove their "loyalty" to God. Then I showed him the front page of "Awake!" with those poor kids that died refusing transfusion with front page saying "Kids who put God first!". Disgusting.

Kosmo

Be careful here, this isn't altogether true; while fetal and materal blood do exchange oxygen and nutrients, they do NOT actually mix unless there is some trauma to the placenta.
During birth there is the potential for the fetus to be exposed to the mother's blood, and vice versa; though that is really more of an artifact of the traumatic experience of birth.

Lobstrosity

Just out of curiosity, how do they exchange oxygen and nutrients without mixing? Is there some sort of membrane across which oxygen can diffuse but that serves to prevent blood cells from crossing?

Oolon Colluphid

I’ll look it up, but that is about right, iirc. The mother’s blood has to be kept away from the foetus, because her immune system would instantly recognise it as foreign -- as the parasite it in effect is -- and would attack it.

This is why foetal Toxoplasma gondii infection is so dangerous. The Toxoplasma is normally held in check by the immune system, and causes little-to-no symptoms. But the foetus doesn’t have an immune system yet, and the mother’s one can’t get at the parasites. The Toxoplasma run riot, and can cause massive brain damage.

(This is all IIRC. It’s a while since I read Zimmer’s wonderful Parasite Rex.)

Cheers, DT

Kosmo

Lobstrosity,

Yeah, that's pretty much it. It's not all that different from how oxygen/nutrient exchange works in normal tissue... across the capillary membrane. In the fetal circulation, think of it as though the placental villi (analagous to capillaries) are bathed in maternal blood, here the nutrient/O2 exhange takes place and then the fetal blood returns to the fetus via the umbilical vein. Of course, many substances pass through this 'barrier' freely (including maternal IgG antibodies) but blood cells do not.

edited for typo

Roller

Learned Gentlemen,

Thank You for your clarification!

:notworthy

Craig

Since the JWs are big on blood "components" then that's what you have to look at. And yes, some blood components do pass. Their own literature supports this.

The irony of all this of course is that if they believe blood should not be transfused or eaten then it should include ALL components, since in the bible is doesn't say to abstain from certain parts of blood, just blood.

The reason that they allow certain components is that there are quite a few treatments and vaccinations that contain these parts and if they denied them to their followers they would catch all kinds of shit for it. People would be dying from easily curable/preventable diseases and that would look bad.