Vanderzyden

Scigirl,

A general answer:

Scientifically. "Hah!", you may retort. But I will insist that observation, hypothesis, analysis, and verification all play a role in determining whether my beliefs are warranted or not.

I can answer in detail, but the content is surely only appropriate for another forum. Feel free to start a topic in another forum and direct me there. For example, you could tell me what in particular you find to be outrageous about Judaism or Christianity and I will be happy to respond.

Permit me to ask you a few questions:

Do you maintain religious beliefs? Upon what basis do you hold them? Have you explored the truth claims of various religious traditions? To what degree do they bearing on your scientific methodology?


Vanderzyden

wade-w

I'm curious as to why you won't answer scigirl here and now, Van. Why do you invite here to open a new thread? If her question really should be elsewhere, you already have an appropriate thread open <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=50&t=000580" target="_blank">here.</a>Why isn't that sufficient?

I've noticed that in several of your threads you seem to start out being reasonable, but quickly degenerate into dogma and time-worn arguments that have been rehashed for centuries, as in the above thread. The word "bait" springs to mind, for some reason.

Is it that you don't want to go back to it, since its so obviously a dead end for you? There are several counter-arguments waiting for your consideration there.

[ August 31, 2002: Message edited by: wadew ]</p>

scigirl

I am an atheist. I see no evidence for the existence of gods or goddesses as most define them.
Yes, and see above.

scigirl

Bubba

Scigirl, isn't it amazing how many non christians have examined the issue of faith more fully than most christians? I know this is getting off of the topic, but I would venture to say that it is true. You said something once that kind of stuck with me. When George Harrison died, you suggested that he had thought about religion and spirituality more than most christians. I think your right.

So where, V. do you somehow think that she hasn't thought about these things? The very fact that she is a moderator on a non-thiest message board would indicate that the subject of religion interests her and that she has probably thought through a great many things.

Also, V. while I'm glad to see that you admit you might be wrong, I'd like to see

1. Where you think that you might be wrong and why you are possibly either wrong or correct...

And

2. What your reading or researching to either confirm all of these issues.

The long list of issues you bring up indicates that you might not be looking into these issues as thoroughly as you might. I've been reading seriously about evolution for about 2 years now, and it will probably take me ten more years to catch up on all of the evidence and arguements involved.

One could also spend six months reading seriously about the diety and existance of Christ.

V., I would suggest that you link to the posts of Geotheo and HelenSL through this board and read some of the things that they have written. Think hard about why they have come to the conclusions that they have. There are a number of excellent thiests who post here if you want things from a thiestic point of view.

All of this is a rather long way of saying...O.K., your wiling to admit your wrong, what are you doing to check out your beliefs?

Bubba

Starboy

Vanderzyden,

I don't believe you. I don’t believe you because you are a confused man. You know that evolution is a scientific theory. You also know that evolution was not concocted to disprove religion, no more than plate tectonics, nuclear physics, astronomy or cosmology and dozen of other scientific endeavors. Yet the tone and intent of your discussions is obvious, you are not here to seek the “truth”; you are here to defend your faith. It is obvious that you are a deceptive and disingenuous person. How can you expect to be taken seriously? Those here are genuinely interested in science and genuinely interested in extending its knowledge. Just because you don’t like scientific theories that imply things that do not agree your ancient and outdated view of the universe doesn’t mean they can be ignored or dismissed. Unless you can present a theory that does a better job of explaining the variety and history of life on the planet in naturalistic terms, you are just another Christian crank. A person who has been fooling themselves all their life, because when they were young they were taught to believe faith = "truth" and faith = proof. With an upbringing like that, a person can be made to believe in just about anything, and seeking “truth” becomes believing in lies. Indeed, we shall see.

Starboy

GeoTheo

Hey Bubba,
I think you are a prominant member of the "cool theists" that post here. thanks for the kind words. One warning though about searching for my old posts:
I came across as a jerk in some of them. I used to argue alot with Helen also. I like to think I've grown. It also seems like there is a nicer crowd here lately. I have a lot of respect for a lot of the "heathen" posters here. I used to be really dogmatic. I now think dogmatism is in direct porportion to being ill-informed. I hope I have gained some humility from learning about how other people approach issues.

Vibr8gKiwi

That a theist would admit to possibily being wrong practically warrants its own holiday

[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: Vibr8gKiwi ]</p>

scigirl

Cool post, Geo.

I know when I first discovered "atheism" I was a bit dogmatic myself (a pattern I seem to notice at christian boards - a lot of times the more sure of themselves christians are the newer converts! )

I love reading boards like this one because someone always thinks of things I didn't, or sees an issue from a different angle.

scigirl

scigirl

Well, I'm not sure if all theists think this way. Or if they think they're right more than we (the atheists/agnostics) do. I mean, we all think that we are right, correct?

I think, however, the theists tend to evangelize a bit more than we do!!

scigirl