Radorth

"Quite possibly"

"Maybe"

"More than likely."

Yeah, Jesus quite possibly rose from the dead as well. We have far more evidence of that than Roger Bacon would have discovered the calculus.

No, although geniuses tend to do their best work from age 25 to 40. In Bacon's case, I don't think the Christians of the day managed to do much damage, as we read here.

http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/o...ger_bacon.html

He was actually banned from writing until 1266, when he was requested to write on the orders of Pope Clement IV. He wrote his three-part work Opus Majus, (Great Work) Opus Minus (lesser work) and Opus Terilium (Third Work), writing each book in secret (because his superiors were opposed to his ideas) and finishing them in less than two years.

He was banned from writing, but thankfully, not thinking. I'm afraid the facts are not on your side. Bacon was studying and writing prolifically what he wanted to at age 52 because he was born in 1214.

I'm not saying he wasn't hindered in some way, but you have yet to prove that he was seriously hindered. He seems to have been as much a hindrance to himself, given some of his own goofy beliefs and undertakings which were neither sanctioned nor frowned upon by the church, such as the study of alchemy.

Rad

Jack the Bodiless

I was referring to the far more reasonable belief that Bacon would have built a telescope.

And why is the pursuit of "goofy beliefs" dangerous?

Because of the Church, that's why.

And a ban on writings is obviously intended to stop other people thinking along the same lines. Similarly, a man in prison won't be performing experiments, won't have access to books, and won't be communicating his discoveries to others.

But this isn't a "serious" hindrance to science.

Radorth

I might better have asked

"Has Christianity consistently hindered scientific achievement and intellectual accomplishment?"

The answer there is no. I can make a good argument that the Reformation, the widespread publication of the NT the "enlightenment" were no coincidence, if allowed the kind of subjective evidence and assumptions we've seen used her. Were Locke and Hooker hindered by what would now be called "fundy" beliefs? Or were they inspired by the nascent and egalitarian teachings of Jesus so admired by Jefferson, and well practiced by Quakers and Methodists.

And it seems that even the works of your oppressed poster boys Bacon and Galileo, were not banned for very long. I'm not even sure a Pope's banning of works doesn't make people more curious about them.

So you see. I can throw out theories about what might or might not have been with the best of you.

Rad

hezekiah jones

Radorth, for the love of god quit facetiously calling Locke and company "fundies." "Fundie" refers to anti-intellectual, pre-Enlightenment thinking that is fairly traceable to a gaggle of anti-modernists who flourished in early 20th century America, and in fact continue to flourish.

John Locke was among those that practically invented the Enlightenment. Your misplaced sarcasm severely undermines your debating tactics, such as they are.

lpetrich

And John Locke was not exactly a fundie sort of Xtian. He distrusted what in the 17th century was called "enthusiasm", which included awakening in the middle of the night, speaking in tongues, and claiming that that was the Voice of God or whatever. Which Radorth claims to have done.

I think that Radorth thinks that anyone he likes is a fundie, no matter how heretical he/she was.

hezekiah jones

Yes and at the risk of wavering off topic, Locke singlehandedly debunked all that "divine right of kings" horseshit, which completely undermines his use as an authority in any of these "Christian nation" crap arguments as well.

Yellum Notnef

Radorth AND the guy in the bunk below him.
IIRC he claimed both he and the guy in the bunk below him were given this magical gift and that they were both grinning at each other the next day about it.

inappropriate inuendo removed

hezekiah jones

Fenton you incorrigible scamp.

Goliath

Soul Invictus,

Well, my books on the History of Mathematics are about 70 miles away....I will have them with me in about a week or so.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Goliath

Radorth,

As I've said at least three times in this thread, my sources for this are not with me. It is common knowledge that the Great Library held many, many scrolls that were lost--many estimate tens of thousands of texts.

As to what was lost......how could we possibly know? If we knew what was lost, then it wouldn't be lost, now would it? What a bizarre request.

Sincerely,

Goliath