wildernesse

Hey! I'm not making a positive claim here! Biff made a positive claim, so he must have the evidence, right? Isn't that how it goes, I mean it sounds so familiar. . . .

--tibac

GeoTheo

Yeah, you have it wrong. You can ransack the Bible looking for Bible passages to "zap" Christians with or you can look at the words of Jesus in light of their context and balance them with other passages. He was a Jew and wanted to reach jews first with his message but that doesn't make him a bigot. For example, the Jews were predjudiced against Samaritans, yet Jesus told a parable about the "good Samaritan" that crossed racial and social boundaries to reach out and help one in need. He told this parable in response to the question "Who is my neighbor?"

GeoTheo

Godless Dave,
I am having a hard time understanding your point. Could you tell me what your definition of Bigot is and how did you arrive at it?

Godless Dave

Hey, you asked for scriptural support for racism and bigotry. No where did I or anyone else claim that the Bible in its entirety is racist and bigoted. Some parts strongly encourage bigotry, and others strongly discourage it. Just like at one point Jesus is reported as saying "Love one another" is the entirety of the law, but at another point he is alleged to have said that he is there to uphold all the old Mosaic laws. The Bible gives inconsistent messages on a variety of issues, which is what you would expect of a compilation of writings from different authors who didn't know each other and who hadn't personally witnessed the events they were writing about. That's why there are so many wildly different interpretations of Christianity, from the religion of love taught by Martin Luther King to the religion of hate espoused by Fred Phelps and Ralph Reed.

Godless Dave

Someone who hates or dislikes people because they are of a different race, ethnicity, religion, gender, etc.

Rhea

As Dave said, you asked for scriptural references.

Why would he care if he reached the Jews first? What _is_ that, if not bigotry? What possible reason could there be to care which race hears about redemption first? Why on earth would one human be more deserving of the message than another?

I'm a white senator and I want to get education to white folks first. That makes me a bigot?


...

"Balance" them with other passages? Why? Do they need to be toned down?

But you asked for an example. I'm not out to "zap" Christians. I do enjoy discussion, though. Sometimes it takes discussion of what's there.

I'm not out to get you just because it doesn't make any sense to me. I look at that claim and say, "now why would anyone say that?" and you give your reason why, and it still doesn't fit, for me. That's a crime? I can't talk about the bible unless I already know the whole thing? What kind of discussion would that be?

Why does it bother you to explain your bible? (genuine confusion)

wildernesse

The United Methodist church's official stance is that salvation is through Christ alone. I believe that as well, although I don't think that when we die non-Christians are marched off to hell. I believe that God loves everyone, that people make selfish mistakes that harm themselves and others, and that when they realize that they repent and are forgiven. I believe that Jesus was a man who was fully divine, in that he had the ability to show us how to live so that we can fully experience the love of God and be vessels of that love. I believe that since God loves everyone then he would not punish people eternally for their mistakes or circumstances.

I find a place for myself within the UMC. What happens when we die is a mystery--to everyone, and for all I *know*, there's nothing--even with a loving God. However, I refuse to believe in a God that cannot love and forgive my husband at least as much as I can. If that's the case, I doubt I will end up in heaven or wish to be there.

--tibac

GeoTheo

Thank you Godless Dave, That appears to be a commonly held definition. However, I just have one more question regarding your definition.
In your definition, you use the words "hates or dislikes" they seem a bit ambiguos. Could you please define these words a bit better? I think it would be wise for me to first understand what you are saying before I disagree with you. Sorry, If I am being thick. I do plan to respond once I know just what you mean.
Thank you.

fatherphil

one of my favorite passages. i just love the ,stuff that makes Jesus a little more complicated than folks would like Him to be.

Biff the unclean

However, I refuse to believe in a God that cannot love and forgive my husband at least as much as I can.

So you are stating that your husband needs forgiving by God because he isn't a member of your sect. He needs "salvation." Shame on you, what a dreadful attitude to have towards people. And your own husband at that.