Autonemesis

I claim with doubtless certainty that an ineffable god can be safely ignored. The effects of an ineffable god on the observable universe would also be ineffable and indistinguishable from random chance. Were the effects of an ineffable god on the observable universe other than ineffable, then god cannot be ineffable, since the not-ineffable effects provide a means by which we can discover a way to express or describe some aspect of its nature. If we can discover even one thing about god's nature, it cannot be ineffable.

Therefore, an ineffable god must also be ineffectual, and as such, it can be ignored.

Totalitarianist

I agree with you. It is illogical to believe in the ineffable God or deny its existence. These are both two kinds of beliefs.

Ignoring the "God" idea is the position of the weak Atheist.

himynameisPwn

Psuedo, so I can safely assume your a weak Santaclausist, fairiest, bigfootist?

Just as you can deny creationism, or pixies, or throwing salt over your shoulder, so can you deny God. Burden of proof, I don't believe in anything till someone proves to me it exists. So, if no one proves God exists, why should I even care? It is possible God does exist, but its just as possible pixies do, and the sun won't rise tommorow.

Can you tell me with 100% certainty that you will wake up tommorow? or that the earth won't just stop rotating, etc. Of course you can't, but based on past evidences, its highly unlikely. With that same logic, one can conclude God doesn't exist, or really doesn't give two shits about us anymore.

Totalitarianist

Either way, denying God is illogical. Believing in him is equaly illogical.

believing in/denying anything without evidence to support your claim is illogical--there can be no exceptions. This includes pixies, the geocentric theory, artificial intelligence, and especially God, as that is the most extraordinary of all claims.

[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: Pseudonym ]</p>

Koyaanisqatsi

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And, whoa.

Fictional creatures do not exist. Until such time as anybody can prove that statement to be false, it stands.

Thus, no "strong" atheist (a pointless delineation to begin with, since the term simply means "without belief in a god or gods") does not "deny" anything at all.

In order to deny something, it would first have to be established as existing.

The fictional creature "God" has never, in the entire history of mankind, been established to exist for even the briefest of moments in order for anyone to "deny" that existence any more than Frodo, Spock, Holden Caulfield, Thor, etc., etc., has been established to exist in order to deny.

It is impossible to "deny" the existence of something that has never been demonstrated to exist.

Totalitarianist

Bingo.

Totalitarianist

That is why it is illogical, isn't it?

Taffy Lewis

If one has established that something exists then one would not deny that it exists.

Establishing the existence of something means that you have proven that it does in fact exist. If you thought that you had done that then you would have no reason to deny that it exists.

Autonemesis

No, ignoring the god idea is the position of the atheist. A- is a prefix meaning without. But you know that.

Consider for a moment the solipsist. He asserts that the self is the only thing that one can know and verify the existence of. Now consider a position we might call asolipsist. The asolipsist declines to assert that the self is the only thing one can know and verify the existence of. He proceeds with some other assumptions, none of which are that the self is the only thing that can be known and verified.

Is the asolipsist making an illogical statement when he discusses things existing other than the self? If not, then how can illogic be ascribed to the atheist under the same circumstances?

Put another way, if one has decided that to proceed as if god does not exist is the rational course, then how is it illogical to say "God does not exist."? That is exactly what I would expect someone to say, who had decided to proceed as if god does not exist.

[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: Kind Bud ]</p>

WJ

Any atheist!

What does it mean for some thing to exist?

Walrus