Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Corwin · 11-18-2002, 02:36 PM

In reality job... ugly and I really aren't disagreeing on all that much. It's a question of theory vs practicality. (Yes IN THEORY you can make a plutonium nuke... you can also buy a 3ghz PC chip. How many people bother to do either? Since both are pretty damned excessive... the answer would be 'not many.')

11-18-2002, 03:01 PM

"Not my son, my friend's son."

My reply : Bring him over and let him read through this thread. I think everyone here could answer any questions he may have.

"I believe the man behind this site believes that the people who made the mini-nuke that he says caused the explosion at Bali are not Muslims but Westerners trying to blame Muslims. He is blaming 'The New World Order' who he also blames for several of the gun massacres."

My reply : Go and check whether the man behind the site is a Muslim or the site itself is run by some Muslim organization. I got a LOT of such "information" when dealing with embarrasing situations to a certain party.

"This guy really annoys me because some of the things he says about the legal system in Tasmania (concerning the aftermath of the Port Arthur massacre) are ridiculous but unfortunately what he says are believed by many people. "

My reply : I'm not very familiar with Port Arthur Massacre or Tasmania's legal system, but I can only advice you one thing - don't believe in everything you see on the Net, because the Net begin to become a new tool of propaganda like the TV was around 1960s.

Arrowman · 11-18-2002, 03:01 PM

Well I can't add anything to the bomb discussion so far, except to concur with the consensus that apart from anything else - why would one bother with something as expensive, complex, troublesome and unreliable as a home-made nuke when one can achieve the same result with a conventional bomb? Arguments like "bodies vaporised" and "the way the buildings burned" are ridiculous. For the latter - er, has the claimer ever been to Bali? Ever noted the almost entirely timber construction of the buildings? Really... Anyway...

Quote:

Originally posted by Kuu:
As I said I have very little knowledge of explosions and yet I could see faults in what was said at the site about the bombing but my friend's son says that that is because I was already prejudice against the site because I totally disagree with what the site says about the Port Arthur massacre.

"I don't know much about subject X but it's obvious to me" is always a dangerous argument, but in this case it's pretty valid. As for "prejudice" - I think it's more a matter of credibility. Joe Vialls is a notorious consipracy theorist. He sees conspiracies behind every major event. He has written up bizarre conspiracy theories on everything from 9-11 to the Concorde crash.

Avoiding ad hom means one must strictly not discount him on one subject because he is so clearly off the wall on another - on the other hand, it is legitimate to invoke "credibility".

I hope you can walk your son's friend through the information presented here, and give him a lesson in critical thinking at the same time. People like Vialls don't deserve credibility.

Arrowman · 11-18-2002, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seraphim:
My reply : Go and check whether the man behind the site is a Muslim or the site itself is run by some Muslim organization. I got a LOT of such "information" when dealing with embarrasing situations to a certain party.

He's not a Muslim, or part of any organisation as far as I know. He's just an independent loony.

ps418 · 11-18-2002, 03:49 PM

Interesting discussion.

Quote:

Corwin: The blast radius is an order of magnitude too small. Even a briefcase nuke has a yield of about 11-12 kilotons with a blast radius of somewhere around a quarter to a half mile.

I was incredulous when I read this. A 12kt suitcase! But it looks like you are correct, according to <a href="http://nuketesting.enviroweb.org/hew/News/Lebedbomb.html" target="_blank">Alexander Lebed.</a> Don't worry though. . . Only ~100 of them are unaccounted for!

Patrick

Kuu · 11-19-2002, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrowman:


He's not a Muslim, or part of any organisation as far as I know. He's just an independent loony.

One of the biggest loonies around as this page aout the 'execution' of Diana, Princess of Wales, shows.

<a href="http://geocities.com/murderinparis/ritz.html" target="_blank">http://geocities.com/murderinparis/ritz.html</a>

How can anyone believe that Diana's death was murder? If she had been wearing a seatbelt she probably would be alive today.

[ November 19, 2002: Message edited by: Kuu ]

11-19-2002, 12:56 AM

"He's not a Muslim, or part of any organisation as far as I know. He's just an independent loony. "

My reply : A big loony who has nothing better to do than make theories out of what already been presented with prove and evidence. Love to meet this loonies one of this days and "knock" some sense into them.

As for Princess Diana and her so-called "murder", if she weren't fooling around at the backseat of her car, she should be alive as well. So what's the point? She's dead and 6 feet under.

Risiko · 11-20-2002, 04:41 AM

I just want to point to

<a href="http://nuketesting.enviroweb.org/hew/" target="_blank">The High Energy Weapons Archive.</a>

They have (among other things) an article on suitcase nukes. There seems to be at least some degree of urband legend in this phenomenon.

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11-18-2002, 02:36 PM	#21
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	In reality job... ugly and I really aren't disagreeing on all that much. It's a question of theory vs practicality. (Yes IN THEORY you can make a plutonium nuke... you can also buy a 3ghz PC chip. How many people bother to do either? Since both are pretty damned excessive... the answer would be 'not many.')

11-18-2002, 03:01 PM	#22
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	"Not my son, my friend's son." My reply : Bring him over and let him read through this thread. I think everyone here could answer any questions he may have. "I believe the man behind this site believes that the people who made the mini-nuke that he says caused the explosion at Bali are not Muslims but Westerners trying to blame Muslims. He is blaming 'The New World Order' who he also blames for several of the gun massacres." My reply : Go and check whether the man behind the site is a Muslim or the site itself is run by some Muslim organization. I got a LOT of such "information" when dealing with embarrasing situations to a certain party. "This guy really annoys me because some of the things he says about the legal system in Tasmania (concerning the aftermath of the Port Arthur massacre) are ridiculous but unfortunately what he says are believed by many people. " My reply : I'm not very familiar with Port Arthur Massacre or Tasmania's legal system, but I can only advice you one thing - don't believe in everything you see on the Net, because the Net begin to become a new tool of propaganda like the TV was around 1960s.

11-19-2002, 12:56 AM	#27
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	"He's not a Muslim, or part of any organisation as far as I know. He's just an independent loony. " My reply : A big loony who has nothing better to do than make theories out of what already been presented with prove and evidence. Love to meet this loonies one of this days and "knock" some sense into them. As for Princess Diana and her so-called "murder", if she weren't fooling around at the backseat of her car, she should be alive as well. So what's the point? She's dead and 6 feet under.

11-20-2002, 04:41 AM	#28
Risiko Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 173	I just want to point to <a href="http://nuketesting.enviroweb.org/hew/" target="_blank">The High Energy Weapons Archive.</a> They have (among other things) an article on suitcase nukes. There seems to be at least some degree of urband legend in this phenomenon.

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