Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Perchance · 12-26-2002, 04:29 PM

(Don't know if this qualifies as a support topic; I won't mind if it is moved).

Recently I've noticed that my political beliefs have shifted to the left quite a bit. Actually, this has been happening for the last two years, thanks mostly to my college environment and a wider field of interests, but the changes are piling up now and my parents (both strongly conservative all their lives) are starting to notice.

This wouldn't really be a problem, except that (unquestioning) acceptance of, for example, George W. Bush is a large part of their identities. When they comment on politics, it is not so much a discusion as a series of rhetorical questions. I've tried debating with them, which doesn't really get anywhere, and I've tried being silent, which they notice and take as a symptom of, often, a more violent disagreement than I'm really prepared to offer. They seem to realize that I don't agree with them completely anymore, but I don't think they realize how deep my disagreement with them runs.

Does anyone have any suggestions for approaching the subject? Is it best to keep as silent as possible? Or does open debate in politics actually accomplish things? I've gotten better at picking my religious battles, but at political debates I'm still relatively inexperienced.

Thanks for any help.

-Perchance.

Vicar Philip · 12-26-2002, 05:26 PM

Out of curiosity, are your folks aware of your religious beliefs as well?

I know what you mean about shifting political views. Before coming here I was right-wing, Rush-listening conservative all the way. Using one's brain tends to move you away from the extremes of either end of the political spectrum, I believe.

Dealing with your parents usually requires a little more tact than, say, a co-worker. When they make their rhetorical comments, and you know it's not really open for debate, it might be best to just zip the old lips and firmly bitest thou tongue. I've discussed my new religious beliefs with my mother, but am careful to not "dis" her beliefs. That can go a long way in keeping a good relationship going.

Good luck!

Dark Cobra · 12-26-2002, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Using one's brain tends to move you away from the extremes of either end of the political spectrum, I believe.

One of the better statements I've heard in days...

Eudaimonist · 12-26-2002, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vicar Philip
Using one's brain tends to move you away from the extremes of either end of the political spectrum, I believe.

I disagree. I've seen it all. Using one's brain can lead to just about anywhere on the political map. I wish I could say otherwise because it would be fun to say that a particular political perspective is intelligent, and all the rest are stupid, but that just isn't so, in my experience.

Perchance · 12-26-2002, 06:43 PM

Hello Vicar Philip,

My parents are both nonbelievers; my father's more emphatic about it than my mom, who seems indifferent. There's never been any problem there.

However, religion is really the only part of his upbringing that my father appears to have shed. He is at least mildly homophobic, won't read books written by women, tells racist jokes, is pro-Israel partially because he thinks of Islam as 'uncivilized' compared to Christianity, and so on.

I agree that sometimes it's better just to be quiet and inwardly roll my eyes. Where they've noticed my silences in the past, it's usually come after I've already been involved in the discussion. The best way is probably just not to start.

Dark Cobra, Eudaimonist:

I've met intelligent people from a lot of pauses on the political spectrum, and dumb ones likewise. I've certainly met 'right-wingers' who seemed to want to establish a theocracy; on the other hand, I've met 'left-wingers' who wore foil helmets to class so the government couldn't beam control rays into their heads. What's changed is the way that I think about certain issues, more than the people I agree with (with the exception of my parents).

-Perchance.

Manta · 12-27-2002, 07:22 AM

The name of the game is change - in work as well as life (okay, so it's cliche' but it's the truth). I've been 'in the closet' about my (lack of) religious beliefs with my folks for a while. And will be until I'm back on my own again.

Politics is a sticky wicket though...I haven't seen any ONE politician that was able to make me 100% happy with their platforms. The ones that have a higher percentage are the ones that get voted for.

I'm basically politically split - I see things in the Democratic platform I like, I see things in the Republican platform I like, and I also see things in the Liberatarian (sp?) party I like.

How's that for ambivalent

Hang in there and make sure you vote your convictions. That's the only hange is gonna happen.

-K "will edit to sway with the wind"

Perchance · 12-27-2002, 07:23 AM

Thanks, Manta. If I can ever find a politician that I want to vote for, I do intend to do so.

I'm also mixed as far as what issues I prefer. I tend to be left of my parents on most things, but right of some other people I know.

-Perchance.

Infinity Lover · 12-27-2002, 08:51 AM

You want to debate politics with your parents? What ever happened to playing scrabble?

No but seriously, you can still voice your opinion on matters and your reasoning behind them, same as your parents can, and learn about each other's points of view that way. Agreeing to disagree isn't all that horrible is it? Who needs an I'm right and you're wrong battle on any topic?

And besides that there's plenty of other things, besides religion and politics, to talk about; right?

vixstile · 12-27-2002, 09:43 AM

I also haven't found my spot on the political spectrum. I'm still busy wading through the bullshit.

Malcolm · 12-27-2002, 11:52 AM

Being able to change your political opinion is a sign of maturity, not weakness! The most immature (and dangerous) people are those who believe what they believe because they believe it and that's that. That goes for religion as well as politics. Wavering, hypocrisy and changing your beliefs for personal gain (or to avoid conflict) may be weak, but a genuine well-thought-out change of mind is to be welcomed. I wish more of our politicians would allow themselves that luxury.

12-26-2002, 04:29 PM	#1
Perchance Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,059	Ways to deal with shifting political beliefs? (Don't know if this qualifies as a support topic; I won't mind if it is moved). Recently I've noticed that my political beliefs have shifted to the left quite a bit. Actually, this has been happening for the last two years, thanks mostly to my college environment and a wider field of interests, but the changes are piling up now and my parents (both strongly conservative all their lives) are starting to notice. This wouldn't really be a problem, except that (unquestioning) acceptance of, for example, George W. Bush is a large part of their identities. When they comment on politics, it is not so much a discusion as a series of rhetorical questions. I've tried debating with them, which doesn't really get anywhere, and I've tried being silent, which they notice and take as a symptom of, often, a more violent disagreement than I'm really prepared to offer. They seem to realize that I don't agree with them completely anymore, but I don't think they realize how deep my disagreement with them runs. Does anyone have any suggestions for approaching the subject? Is it best to keep as silent as possible? Or does open debate in politics actually accomplish things? I've gotten better at picking my religious battles, but at political debates I'm still relatively inexperienced. Thanks for any help. -Perchance.

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12-26-2002, 05:26 PM	#2
Vicar Philip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cozy little chapel of me own Posts: 1,162	Out of curiosity, are your folks aware of your religious beliefs as well? I know what you mean about shifting political views. Before coming here I was right-wing, Rush-listening conservative all the way. Using one's brain tends to move you away from the extremes of either end of the political spectrum, I believe. Dealing with your parents usually requires a little more tact than, say, a co-worker. When they make their rhetorical comments, and you know it's not really open for debate, it might be best to just zip the old lips and firmly bitest thou tongue. I've discussed my new religious beliefs with my mother, but am careful to not "dis" her beliefs. That can go a long way in keeping a good relationship going. Good luck!

12-26-2002, 06:43 PM	#5
Perchance Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,059	Hello Vicar Philip, My parents are both nonbelievers; my father's more emphatic about it than my mom, who seems indifferent. There's never been any problem there. However, religion is really the only part of his upbringing that my father appears to have shed. He is at least mildly homophobic, won't read books written by women, tells racist jokes, is pro-Israel partially because he thinks of Islam as 'uncivilized' compared to Christianity, and so on. I agree that sometimes it's better just to be quiet and inwardly roll my eyes. Where they've noticed my silences in the past, it's usually come after I've already been involved in the discussion. The best way is probably just not to start. Dark Cobra, Eudaimonist: I've met intelligent people from a lot of pauses on the political spectrum, and dumb ones likewise. I've certainly met 'right-wingers' who seemed to want to establish a theocracy; on the other hand, I've met 'left-wingers' who wore foil helmets to class so the government couldn't beam control rays into their heads. What's changed is the way that I think about certain issues, more than the people I agree with (with the exception of my parents). -Perchance.

12-27-2002, 07:22 AM	#6
Manta Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: St Somewhere Posts: 352	The name of the game is change - in work as well as life (okay, so it's cliche' but it's the truth). I've been 'in the closet' about my (lack of) religious beliefs with my folks for a while. And will be until I'm back on my own again. Politics is a sticky wicket though...I haven't seen any ONE politician that was able to make me 100% happy with their platforms. The ones that have a higher percentage are the ones that get voted for. I'm basically politically split - I see things in the Democratic platform I like, I see things in the Republican platform I like, and I also see things in the Liberatarian (sp?) party I like. How's that for ambivalent Hang in there and make sure you vote your convictions. That's the only hange is gonna happen. -K "will edit to sway with the wind"

12-27-2002, 07:23 AM	#7
Perchance Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,059	Thanks, Manta. If I can ever find a politician that I want to vote for, I do intend to do so. I'm also mixed as far as what issues I prefer. I tend to be left of my parents on most things, but right of some other people I know. -Perchance.

12-27-2002, 08:51 AM	#8
Infinity Lover Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,047	You want to debate politics with your parents? What ever happened to playing scrabble? No but seriously, you can still voice your opinion on matters and your reasoning behind them, same as your parents can, and learn about each other's points of view that way. Agreeing to disagree isn't all that horrible is it? Who needs an I'm right and you're wrong battle on any topic? And besides that there's plenty of other things, besides religion and politics, to talk about; right?

12-27-2002, 09:43 AM	#9
vixstile Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: California Posts: 2,029	I also haven't found my spot on the political spectrum. I'm still busy wading through the bullshit.

12-27-2002, 11:52 AM	#10
Malcolm Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: England Posts: 124	Being able to change your political opinion is a sign of maturity, not weakness! The most immature (and dangerous) people are those who believe what they believe because they believe it and that's that. That goes for religion as well as politics. Wavering, hypocrisy and changing your beliefs for personal gain (or to avoid conflict) may be weak, but a genuine well-thought-out change of mind is to be welcomed. I wish more of our politicians would allow themselves that luxury.

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