Seraphim

And if one of your loved ones was in despair and couldn't go on, would you leave them be, or force a guilt-trip on them?

My reply : I will talk to them and help them onward, since death solves nothing. By God, with my support, THEY will find peace with themselves even if I have to go through Hell with them.

I suppose the same can be applied to your methods of dealing with depression if they don't work?

My reply : Yes, the same. Take it or leave. I'm here for you as long as you wish for my help. If you don't care, why should I care?
You can throw everything you hear from me and do whatever you like, afterall, it is your life.

winstonjen

What if it doesn't work? Will you acknowledge that your methods (like any other) are less than perfect?

HelenM

Hi wenbur84 - I hope you're beyond being suicidal; I'm glad you weren't successful 7 years ago.

Anyway, my church's position on depression and suicide is fairly typical of conservative Bible-believing churches.

They believe that if you accept Jesus' death for your sins that covers ALL sin, past, present and future in the sense that no sin will send you to hell any more. If you don't then you will end up in hell anyway. So suicide will not 'change' your eternal destiny, as it were. They do acknowledge that 'true Christians' commit suicide sometimes.

They accept that depression is an 'illness'; they would recommend professional treatment for it. They would recommend Christian counseling - rather than just any counseling - as well as treatment by a doctor. This is because they believe that a right understanding of God and relationship to God can help a person's emotional health but they wouldn't say therefore depression is not an illness. It's not an either/or where depression is either a sin or an illness. It can involve both. Sometimes we feel bad because we are not making good choices in our lives, in other words. But they know that clinical depression goes way beyond having a bad day.

So...actually, in their theology, whether suicide is a sin or not it won't send anyone to hell. People who refuse to accept Jesus' death for their sins go to hell regardless of how they die and people who have accepted Jesus go to heaven regardless of how they die.

And they believe 'once saved, always saved' so there is no sin - including suicide to the extent it might be considered a sin - that will stop a Christian going to heaven. According to their beliefs.

As I said, I'm glad you survived your suicide attempt, 7 years ago and I hope you never feel that low again, that you would attempt to take your own life.

take care
Helen

p.s. if you're curious, my pastor preached about suicide some years ago - here is the written copy of the sermon

Too Young To Die: Confronting the Tragedy of Suicide

(Hopefully it doesn't contradict what I just said my church believes - I haven't read it for a while)

Mad Kally

Seraphim, my mother is a member of a cult called Christianity. You could use an injection of Haldol. I am not joking. I honestly believe people like you and my mom have gone over the deep end into madness. You're the same type of sweet, loving Christian as she is. Do you convert many people with your vile mouth? Or maybe you wear that big fake psychotic grin when you are around your fellow loving Christians? <shudder>

The Naked Mage

<points at Kally, nods enthusiastically>

queue

From here. From here. From here. From here. This site has more information about depression.

Bree

You astound me. I cannot believe you think you are perfectly justified in telling Kally (or any other person participating in this thread) how best to "relate" to their loved ones. You are not giving anyone any credit - I'm sure they, not you, know the people in their lives the best, and therefore know how best to work (or not work) with them.

Seraphim

Seraphim, my mother is a member of a cult called Christianity. You could use an injection of Haldol. I am not joking. I honestly believe people like you and my mom have gone over the deep end into madness. You're the same type of sweet, loving Christian as she is. Do you convert many people with your vile mouth? Or maybe you wear that big fake psychotic grin when you are around your fellow loving Christians? <shudder>

My reply : Sigh ... how come someone in need of help can be so "baaga" ...

You're another example of a person who is in Christian prison - you reject their teachings YET you have NO other way to live your life. When you get out, give a call ... assuming of course you won't pop yourself before that.

By Bree

You astound me. I cannot believe you think you are perfectly justified in telling Kally (or any other person participating in this thread) how best to "relate" to their loved ones. You are not giving anyone any credit - I'm sure they, not you, know the people in their lives the best, and therefore know how best to work (or not work) with them.

My reply : Hmph ... You astound me as well ... never actually met a blind moderator before ...

ANYONE could tell another how to love another person if the method is proper, pal ... you don't need to be a doctor to descript how to love another person, especially if the person is someone close to you ... or maybe in your world, it is the doctors who treating others while their loved ones watchs and do nothing.

If some of them here knows what is the best for their loved ones, they couldn't bother with issues like suicides (which will affect their loved ones even worse than whatever effecting them now) could they?

winstonjen

Um, Seraphim, people don't need to live by the bible or according to Xian teachings. Just because it's a major influence in their lives doesn't mean they give in to it and live according to it. They aren't in a prison. They have broken free. You appear to be in the prison, Seraphim, because you would never consider suicide an option for you, so you are imprisoning yourself in your own body, and in this life. Me personally, I don't care if this is the only life we get - I value quality over quantity.

Seraphim

By queue

Beforehand, thank you for the links.

... Untreated depression is the number one cause of suicide, and suicide is the third leading cause of death in the United States ...

My reply : They're kidding, right? 3rd leading cause? I knew your society is falling on it's face, but I didn't know it was this bad.


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What is known is that one major cause of depression is an imbalance in certain chemicals in the brain cells (neurons) called neurotransmitters, which carry signals between brain cells.
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My qoute :
It used to be more commonly believed that depression was caused by psychological reactions to a person's environment. Research today is generating more and more evidence that physiological factors are strongly involved, although opinions today are still widely divided within the field as to how much of depression is psychological and how much is physiological. It seems, however, that it is a combination of both; what makes this tricky is that almost every case seems to be unique.

My reply : So Depression is cause by both environmental factors and psychological one ... and it seems that each case (in another word, each person's case) is unique.

My qoute :

When someone you know is depressed, it is important to provide the right type of support. Listen to the depressed person - you don't need to have any solutions for them, just listen. Be supportive, and sympathetic.

Here's something to show that I'm being what the experts agreed to be the proper method - being supportive ... more that what you get from some around here ...


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Depression can be caused by an imbalance of certain chemicals in the brain. These chemicals are natural substances that allow brain cells to communicate with one another.
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My reply : Even with drugs to combat this imbalance, once the body got use to the drugs, the imbalance returns and you're back to square one. Which means drugs IS should not be the only way to combat it,


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Biological - People with depression typically have too little or too much of certain brain chemicals, called "neurotransmitters." Changes in these brain chemicals may cause, or contribute to, clinical depression.
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My reply : Have anyone gotten over depression? Have anyone checked whether their brains somehow managed to increase its neurotransmitters or somehow added some chemicals to balance its imbalance spoke about earlier?
Have anyone compared the brain of those who is cured out of depression with those who is still depressed to see the changes?


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There is absolute proof that people suffering from depression have changes in their brains compared to people who do not suffer from depression. The hippocampus, a small part of the brain that is vital to the storage of memories, is 9-13% smaller in women with a history of depression than in those who've never been depressed. A smaller hippocampus has fewer serotonin receptors. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter -- a chemical messenger that allows communication between nerves in the brain and the body.

What scientists don't yet know is why the hippocampus is smaller. Investigators have found that cortisol (a stress hormone that is important to the normal function of the hippocampus) is produced in excess in depressed people. They believe that cortisol has a toxic or poisonous effect on the hippocampus. It's also possible that depressed people are simply born with a smaller hippocampus and are therefore inclined to suffer from depression.
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My reply : Some proof ... your scientists knows the reason is shorter hippo(campus? I thought it thamus?) but don't know WHY it shrunk in the first place.

Either way, Thank you for your links.