BadBadBad

Perhaps one of the topics your minister could cover is how to have your heart unhardened against God, by God. I'm an atheist, and if I were to consider christianity, I'd have to look at Romans 9 and "real life" examples of God's heart hardening tricks in Exodus and ask myself how I came to be an atheist. Pharoah did accept the reality of God, his sin against God, and asked for mercy. But God kept doing that heart hardening thing. I think that's my problem. Who am I to "repliest" against God and question his purpose of demonstrating his power and glory and using me as an example like Pharaoh to multiply his signs and his wonders? Will he cover that?

Romans 9:14-21
What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

mike_decock

I know there is no arrogance intended and I hope you don't think I was accusing you of intentional arrogance. From your posts, I don't think that is that case. I'm just trying to point out to you that the Christian Faith is simply arrogance in disguise.

If God exists is the key here. Your belief that God exists is just that, a belief. I have no doubt that you have good reasons to believe in the existence of God. Do you accept that those who don't believe in God have reasons which are just as valid as yours?

Why is your scholarship of the life, death and resurrection account any more valid than the many people who have studied the same evidence and come to the opposite conclusion?

And here you return to an arrogant assertion of your "humble" belief. You presume to know the "truth about Jesus". An honest, humble person would admit their ignorance because the evidence, at best, is inconclusive.

So, since the God you believe in is superior (in your minority opinion), you believe you have the right to tell everyone else that their belief (or disbelief) in God is inferior?

Truth is always valid, but the honest, humble truth is that you don't really know if what you're telling me is true.

-Mike...

Starboy

Kevin, if there is a god and it wants me to be like Jesus then it doesn't need your help. God can turn me into Jesus anytime it wants. The fact that it hasn't done so indicates that it thinks one Jesus was enough or it could mean that god is irrelevant or possibly even non-existent. Insisting on changing people to be as you think they should be when they have no interest in doing so is intolerant.

You can believe in your uberdaddy as I choose not to. If we both respected our choices then that would be tolerance. That is the point of freedom of religion and separation of church and state. Many of the Christians in this country don't get it and I fear you are one of them. This intolerant attitude of Christians is how Christianity becomes death, destruction and hatred. Tolerance is how you learn to live with differing neighbors in peace if not harmony. If love and peace where more than just words used in the Christian propaganda you thoughtlessly spew you would understand this. Proselytizing your neighbors is not how to show tolerance towards them.

Starboy

spurly

Starboy, God is not in the practice of taking over people's will and making them do things that they don't want to do. He could turn you into someone who mirrored the characteristics of Jesus, but that would mean you would simply be a robot - you would not be doing it out of love. God will not force himself on anyone.

Quote:

You can believe in your uberdaddy as I choose not to. If we both respected our choices then that would be tolerance. That is the point of freedom of religion and separation of church and state. Many of the Christians in this country don't get it and I fear you are one of them. This intolerant attitude of Christians is how Christianity becomes death, destruction and hatred. Tolerance is how you learn to live with differing neighbors in peace if not harmony. If love and peace where more than just words used in the Christian propaganda you thoughtlessly spew you would understand this. Proselytizing your neighbors is not how to show tolerance towards them. Starboy

Starboy, if you were my next door neighbor I would have no problem watching the NCAA championship at your house or having you and your family over to my house for dinner. I do not hate anyone. If you met me in person you would know that because you could see my heart.

I have a tremendous amount of tolerance, but I also have a tremendous amount of love, and that love compels me to share the story of Jesus with everyone I can. I don't want to see anyone left behind when he returns.

Kevin