lazy.eye

Koyaanisqatsi:

I was simply wondering where I could pick up a few books about how to "debate" in such a precise fashion, much like your "shock and awe" tactics (if you will) that you've been so brilliantly demonstrating in the past couple of posts.

I'm new here (obviously) and have just been lurking for the past few days checking things out...

-lazy

.. "furtile", lol... I like it.

malai5

Dear LadyShea.

You know, we were wondering the same thing.
Did you see ''chakra'' mentioned.
Did you see ''spirit guide'' mentioned.
Did you see ''cleanse my aura'' mentioned.
Funny, these seem to be your words that slipped so easily off your tongue.

This is a good example of ''little'' self, judgemental behaviour.
You have no facts to make such assertions/judgements, you are just assuming that you know where we are coming from.

We think that you should do what you said you would do, ''I think I'll go make a medicine wheel out of sticks and rocks in Sedona''.
We feel this is more your speed.

Cheers.

Malai5.

malai5

Dear Koyaanisqatsi.

We would like to set the record straight with a bit of information about how ESP, Clairvoyance etc. works.

In general terms, information received is on a ''need to know'' basis. The ''need'', is not generated from the 3D world, but from the Higher self of the person who is requesting the information.
As it is ''needs'' based, and not ''wants'' based, it is directed to the real core of the problem that is at hand.
The receiver, the Clairvoyant, does not know what will come through when a request is made and this is the way to get ''untainted'' information. The Clairvoyant has to put themself into a ''space'', where their own emotions, perceptions, assumptions, learned patterns, in fact all 3D parts of themselves are divorced from them.
This is what we call our working space.

The information then comes in the form of ''thought'' words and images which just ''float'' in. Sometimes it is a stream, sometimes bit by bit. The meaning to the images is sometimes there, other times it is not, as it is meant for the recipient and has a meaning for them which they will recognise.

Clairvoyant information is meant in it's true form to be the message the Higher self is not able to get across through the normal intuitive processes of the individual. Times of great stress, where a person is confused tends to ''block'' out the natural intuitive delivery.

Everyone has this ability, but their contracted path in this life may not include the greatest use of it, for the help of others, it's just for themselves.

The understanding of the ''3 Selves'', will assist one to know when they are operating in ''little'' or ''bigger''/Higher self mode.
It is a way of living your day to day life as that ''bigger'' self. A self that does not judge, a self that does not lie, a self that does not prevent others from learning their lessons, a self that does not have a ''price'', a self that loves ''unconditionally'', a self that does not fear, a self that does not suffer from envy, a self that speaks it's truth, a self that does not seek to be like others or follow others, a self that is and knows it is an individual and not afraid to walk it's walk and talk it's talk, a self that knows that it is something far greater than it's 3D existence and is in touch in a conscious way with it's G.O.D. given abilities, it's true birthright, it's Universal eternal self, it's TRUE SELF.

That is what we are here to show, bring the message of and the way to acheive it. It is then up to you whether you believe it or not, take up the challenge of self or not. Free will remember.

As for us, we are living proof of what we have learned from the Universe and we have shared this with many. Having started down the road, they tell us they would never go back because the self they have found and the abilities exposed.
The only proof required is of self to self, the personal journey taken in Trust, Faith and Belief in the system that gave you life, the Gift Of Design/Grand Order of Design.

This is what the Universal material is all about, it's as simple as that.

Cheers.

Malai5.

Koyaanisqatsi

Why? To once again go back on what you had initially claimed in such unbelievably arrogant, presumptive terms? As if you actually are privy to "the truth" and not just another whack job spouting unsubstantiated claims?

You haven't earned that right, sir or madam.

Yes, I'm familiar with your claims.

They are the exact same claims that people make from time to time throughout human history; claims of "special knowledge" about the "true" nature of our "higher selves" that is always imparted only to a select few, yet is there for the benefit of all.

We've heard all of this a thousand different times wearing a thousand different masks and always coming through a medium, rather than just beamed directly into everybody's skull all at once so as to remove all doubt.

It's always predicated on believing in the medium until that is challenged and then it gets conveniently shifted to, "you don't have to believe in me or my claims, but just hear the message" or some such crap. Over and over and over again and every single one of these thousands of masks gets revealed for the obvious charlatan that the mask is intended to obfuscate. To borrow from McCluhan, the medium is the message, my friend and you are no different.

Indeed, you're exactly the same. You proselytize with whiffs of brimstone in your vague, hyperbolic dogma and dance and sing like a Vaudeville hack the minute any serious attention is paid to your baseless claims; attempting to tell us that it is we who just can't see the "truth" of your words.

As I mentioned before, we are master chess players here and you have burst into our tournament, as it were, and screamed, "You have never been playing what you think is chess from the start!"

Support that claim; don't patronize us with further unsubstantiated redirection about how you necessarily define your own hucksterism in order to justify the vagueness of your claims.

You present yourself as possessing full understanding of the process, yet provide none of the supporting analysis or detailed documentation and methodology of your claims. That means you are not to be taken seriously.

Period.

If you wish to change that status, then grow up and fulfill the most basic, minimum requirements instead of wasting all of this bandwidth trying to tell us why we just don't understand. We're not idiots. You made a claim. Support it. It's that f*ckin' simple.

If you can't grasp that painfully simple maxim, then what's the point to any of this? Oh, that's right, you have no point. You're just "putting it out there."

The "3D world" you claim is a "false reality" has existed for hundreds of millions of years before any of us have been around to make such imaginative declarations, which means you had damn well better provide extremely compelling evidence or argumentation that would contravene billions of years of non-"sentient" (i.e., "self aware") existence of this "false reality" at the very least!

That is not an unreasonable request. We don't need to be spoon-fed your own interpretation of what you think is going on, we only need from you the raw data and the methodology you employed to test it.

Indeed, you, as you indirectly claim anyway, are no longer important at all in this regard; you've made your claim now present the evidence and remain quiet sitting out in the hall while the board reviews it and passes judgment, capisca?

Ok. And how do you quantify this state? How do you verify that such a state has been obtained? Since this is all still going on within the 3D world of your brain and body no matter how long you might submerge yourself in a sensory deprivation tank, either real or meditatively attained, how do you qualify "all 3D parts of themselves are divorced from them?"

In other words, dream interpretation. Or, in this case, "day" dream interpretation. So? And? What is the presumptive context? How do you differentiate the bits and pieces that "float" in as opposed to the bits and pieces that emerge? How do you quantify that which allegedly comes from "without" to that which comes from "within?" Personal selection? Gut feeling? Intuition?

No. Your presumptive context--this is "truth" from higher selves--is what guides the manner in which you interpret and piece together the so called "puzzle" that "floats" in, just as everybody does on a daily basis with any kind of mental flotsam and jetsam.

For the theist, the presumptive context is it is all coming from God (no acronym); for you it is all coming from G.O.D. (acronym). What quantifiable evidence do you propose that separates this from mere wish fulfillment interpretation of subconscious trace imagery and feelings?

Wouldn't it follow that a person who seeks to clear their minds of the clutter of daily existence would be in a sort of dissociative state as a matter of course? How then do you qualify that your dissociative state isn't just part of the natural process of dissociation? Of the mind, when consciously cleared of all normal distractions and ruminations and operations, doesn't just occasionally "burp" out (float in) random images and bits and pieces that, naturally, relate in some manner to the one accessing this meditative "space?"

You repeatedly claimed you had information gathered over a three year period that you were able to determine to be "100% correct." What was your methodology for determining this? What was the information?

Reasonable requests, don't you think? You certainly have convinced yourself of all of this in some manner. I certainly hope, for your sake, that it all wasn't just a matter of finally realizing that you have a subconscious that serves up these internally specific "thoughts." So how have you been able to discern what is being "beamed" to you and what is more likely merely coming from within?

You say, cryptically, that there are three of you and then imply that the "three" is really just you. Are there two other human beings that also "hear" the same message? No. They "hear" messages specific to themselves. Only you received the initial message that this is information from a "higher self," right? And then you enlisted other "clairvoyants" or other people and instructed them on what to do and what to look and listen for, so, again, aren't you simply following a presumptive context in order to fit the pieces together?

Aren't you simply assuming that the picture is a "crying clown" and fitting your pieces according to that model?

How? If this is information from my "higher self" then don't they have an override switch? The ability--as with you--to induce and instruct?

Why is it always that "we" have lost our way from ourselves and how is that even possible? My brain is arguably a "higher" organ than my liver or a lung, yet they are still a part of me symbiotically and tremendous amounts of information are being passed back and forth on a nano-second to nano-second basis that my "conscious" self need not necessarily concern itself with as a survival function of the hierarchy of my existence, yet its all still "one."

It seems to me only the centrist arrogance of the day-to-day self accounts for any claims of a comparative hierarchy of importance, however.

Further, I see no reason why, when in a meditative state, one wouldn't be able to pick up on such bits and pieces as "thoughts" and images; what do lungs dream about? Necessary lung-like things, perhaps, whatever they may be? Who knows?

I don't object necessarily to the claim that you "hear" thoughts and see images; we all do that on a constant basis. It is the presumptive context into which you have forced all of this information that is at issue, so kindly provide the methodology to your rigorous study of this issue and do not merely continue to claim, "It just is this way. Trust me. Trust yourself."

Did you, for example, run any double blind tests with "clairvoyants" prior to poisoning their well with your own presumptive context? Psychologists and psychiatrists have been exactly what you're talking about for years in order to analyze possible inner conflicts and inner psyche turmoil, yet none of them concluded that any of it was coming from an external source so why are you?

Because you were told this was the case by your own internal/external "higher self?" You "received a message?" So did Berkowitz; only the message he supposedly received was "Kill" and it came from his dog.

So, again, you're merely selling us to ourselves. To what end? You claim there is a "need" to do this in order to prepare for your version of an "endtime" event that you have vaguely alluded to; thereby imparting or implying a sense of some urgency that we all start doing this and then waffle back on it all when challenged so that it becomes a "self help" program.

"It's just important that you all know that this is the case. Nothing more," and then go on to describe all of the "more" still left to do without making a clear and detailed case as to why this "needs" to be done, or, indeed, how you even know that what you are claiming isn't merely the result of a chemical malfunction in your neuronal passages, or, indeed, merely the natural "white noise" that is generated by the body in a state of concerted inaction.

Worst of all, of course, is that you make all of these claims that imply our "higher selves" are somehow incapable of communicating this information directly, because of "stress" or thoughts you merely assert are distracting us from a "higher" purpose; a "universal way," and that the 3D world necessarily bogs us down into this quagmire, as if it is malevolent in some manner; as if we're all in boot camp and just don't know it because of our own denial.

How could you possibly quantify any of those assertions? Sorry, I forgot. You don't. In fact, you get rather indignant when anyone asks for you to do precisely that.

It just all reminds me of one of the original Star Trek movies, where they travel to the center of the universe (because Spock's estranged, clairvoyant brother has been called by a vision) and when they get there and finally meet the supposed face of god, it asks if the starship they came in would be powerful enough to take his "message" to the rest of the universe and Kirk steps in and says, "Excuse me, but what does god need with a starship?"

The same applies here. If these "higher selves" have the ability to send you messages, then why don't they have the ability to send us all messages in the exact same manner on a constant basis and in precisely the right frequency to get through? Wouldn't they know how to do that? Aren't they merely a part of "us;" a "higher" us, no less, which implies super natural existence if not powers of some kind? Since we can artificially induce this "state" of consciousness in order to hear our own messages, why can't "they" (since "they" are also "we") do the exact same thing anytime they need to impart information?

Why wouldn't we just simply have the mental equivalent of a "red phone" that rings whenever our "higher" selves need to get directly through to us?

You see, that's always the fallacy of these wish fulfillment fantasies; they are never logically consistent with their own precepts and following any one of those precepts out to its logical conclusion always trips up the whole.

Which is, of course, why we are then instructed to not do such a thing; that such a thing is "3D" thinking and therefore just automatically assumed to be corrupt and bad and wrong!

The "little" self is flawed and full of sin and cannot know the "higher" self because of this fallible nature; you must purge yourself of all...blah, blah, blah.

This is nothing more than the same old thinly revamped notion of the inherent worthlessness of mankind when left to their own devices; ironically missing the fact that what you propose is still us, just on some "higher" more pure state that only seeks to rectify the inabilities of the "lesser" state to do anything right.

Thus, we are always wrong in what we do or think or practice or preach and only the "higher" beings know what is best for us; the invisible overlords who are there to protect and to guide us through this minefield we've created for ourselves.

Well, except for that nonsense at the end about the G.O.D. given abilities and the "far greater" horse shite, you've just described nearly everybody on these boards, so I guess we've all been doing precisely this throughout our entire lives, which, of course, would make sense, seeing as how "we" are all of ourselves all the time.

The only difference is, of course, that "we" have more than enough to contend with in the 3D world that charlatans like you always try to demonize so desperately. It's always a rejection of what is in favor for what is claimed.

Except that we don't have free will, remember? We have a "contract" that "needs" to be fulfilled before the coming implied eschatological "event" of the overlapping of the dimensions, where those who are found wanting will be, what? Eradicated? Absorbed? Put on an island of thought somewhere in the ethereal plane? For we are 180 degrees out of sync and this out of sync-ness came as a result of all of us being and acting on those alleged "G.O.D. given abilities." Right?

So we must bifurcate in order to unite; disassociate in order to unify; stop doing following our "G.O.D. given abilities" in order to follow our "G.O.D. given abilities." And round and round and round she goes, where she stops, nobody knows. Except for you and your 100% correct information.

You state that as if that has any substantive meaning at all, which it does not. It is little more than petty self-justification with a heavy does of piousness thrown in.

Just like every other hack throughout all of human history. Let me guess, this message isn't for any other animal on the planet, because they either don't count or are naturally in this 5D orientation, having never had the burdens of consciousness that necessarily throw us all 180 degrees out of sync, right?

Un hunh. And those abilities are quantified in what manner? Exactly how has your life changed? You used to be a sinner and now you're not? You're in touch with your TRUE SELF and that has impacted your life in what way? We are not in touch your our TRUE SELVES and you know this how? Because we ask questions? Because we doubt your veracity? We don't have the 5D eyes to see the way you do, right? Let me guess, you have achieved an inner peace; the inner peace that can only come when one shuffles off this mortal coil (metaphorically speaking) and let's one's TRUE SELF guide you, implying that this wasn't happening the entire time; that one's TRUE SELF is somehow separate and apart or above.

No, that is not the proof "required" and you know it, which is why you keep dancing around and around it with such meaningless platitudes as this. You're a charlatan; most likely a borderline schizophrenic that hears voices and seeks to justify what they are according to a wish-fulfillment fantasy of pure escapism.

My Aunt once had a severe mental breakdown, where she was convinced that the Devil (yes, the christian boogeyman) was trying to possess her soul. This went on for two years. Did she seeks psychiatric care? No. She turned instead to prayer, thereby confirming the belief structure--her presumptive context--and to this day she (and her family) are born-again christians as a result of no proof required of self to self. She, like you, received "messages" from some unknown realm, so how do you classify that? How will you negate her experience and somehow affirm your own?

I'm curious, though I have a fairly good idea what you will say to apologize for it, but I'll wait and see what your clairvoyance and connection to your "true self" tells you about my aunt's experience. Was her experience all the result of 3D thinking and if so, how is it different from your experience?

Indeed, how could you possibly confirm that your experiences aren't directly the result of the same kind of muddled, 180 degree out of sync thinking that you claim everyone else is under?

You just "know," right? Just like my aunt just knew that Satan was struggling to possess her soul, right?

Of course it is! Completely and utterly "simple." You aren't you; you're a "little self" and your "higher self" is trying to tell you that you are 180 degrees out of sync with your "contract" with the universe; the hundreds of trillions of stars and planets and moons and black holes and quasars that have existed for billions of years in a "false reality" just waiting for the time that we showed up in order to trick us all into not fulfilling our "contract" with it! As simple as loop quantum gravity theory!

Malai, I have no doubt that you actually believe all of this crap, just as I have no doubt that my aunt (and her family) actually believe that the Lord of the Hoary Netherworld was in immortal struggle for her soul. What any of that has to do with my TRUE SELF, however, says nothing at all.

What it has to do with your TRUE SELF speaks volumes. I know it won't do any good, but I sincerely urge you to seek out psychiatric care, if only to demonstrate your seriousness in seeking out as rigorously as possible independent, unbiased (meaning no presumptive context) confirmation of your own claims, because spewing this nonsense here absent such rudimentary confirmation simply serves to paint yourself with your own brush.

While certainly entertaining, I put it to you that if what you are imparting is of some sort of urgency and/or necessity, the manner in which you are doing it is 180 degrees out of sync with everything you have alleged about your own "5D" thinking.

Aethernaut

Perfetto, meraviglioso (Heh, I don't actually speak Italian, I just thought it fit in with a lot of other nonsense on this thread)!! A well written reply which truly digs into a poorly constructed rationalization for multiple personality disorder with a vaguely theistic bent. Of course, that's just my "3D thinking."

Keith Russell

Greetings:

The 'exercise' Malai5 asked LadyShea to perform, is very similar to the unconscious 'automatic writing' exercises used by Surrealist writers in the 1930s and '40s, and by some Surrealist artists as well.

Leonardo also stared at the shapes his imagination allowed him to 'see' in blank pieces of paper, and Salvador Dali spoke of having success with this method of spontaneous image-creation as well. (I have, too!)

But, the Surrealists did not believe that they were tapping into any sort of 'higher self'--certainly not the ultimate secrets of some 'universal consciousness'.

Yes, the process can yield interesting, even amazing results (as Dali's, Breton's, and Leonardo's work show), but that is certainly not proof of Malai5's claims.

There are other, far more viable, explanations.

Keith.

Nowhere357

Hi Malai. How are your recruiting efforts going? Not well, seems like.

Cheers (it is so).

malai5

Dear Nowhere357.

Where in your perceptional base do you think we are coming from?
It is all too easy to dismiss what is really there, by the way you see it.
This approach requires absolutely no thought, whatsoever.
How can we seek to recruit anyone to themselves, their real selves. We are just informing you of what you are but don't know.
It's as simple as that.

Cheers.

Malai5.

malai5

Dear Koyaanisqatsi.

No amount of 3D reductionist, relativistic diatribe will convince us that you know ''diddly'' about what we are posting here.
You may seek to construct a framework of dialectic, that in your mind should convince us of the imperitive of what you seek for yourself and ''all'' others on this forum.
We are not convinced that your influence is as all pervading as you believe and your ''considered'' arguments are nothing more than a mish mash of twisted conceptional misunderstandings of the arena of the ''so called'', unconscious mind.

If you would care to do some research for yourself (although this, we feel is highly unlikely) you then could stand at least, on your own truth of understanding and not parrot the selective experiences of others. At least, they have had experiences. Your judgement of their experiences is only worth something to you.

We will continue to post the material we receive and answer questions on same while ever the interest is there. No amount of ranting by you will put us off.
We believe in what we do, but have no illusions or expectations about your beliefs or of any others belief. It is up to you, or anyone else, for that matter to come to their own position as far as the universal material is concerned. We have absolutely no investment in whether you believe it or not.

Cheers.

Malai5.

Koyaanisqatsi

So, in other words and once again, another pointless evasion tactic.

What a shock.

May I ask you a simple question? Why do you think that "putting it out there" is sufficient justification for not having to answer any questions about your methodology?