Whispers

I am not entirely sure how to respond to this. Starboy, please believe me when I say that I have NO hidden agenda here or with any of you. I am here to learn and share. I am NOT a Christian but have been exploring the idea of becoming one. I must admit, that a few hours spenty on this forum almost completely turns me away from the bible and the claims therein.

Rhea

Chuckle, phew. Then you can see how confusing it is for you to state that you know what god can and cannot do.

A god COULD show herself without violating free will.
Moreover, we don't have free will anyway. We are bound by gravity, time, momentum, entropy and more. Not a lot of free will there after all.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Whispers
I must admit, that a few hours spenty on this forum almost completely turns me away from the bible and the claims therein.

It does the same for me.

Would I be correct in saying that the positive aspects that may be gained from Christianity (such as love for everyone, inner peace, etc.) appeal to you, but the other side of the religion (intolerance, absurd claims, etc.) does not? If so, perhaps you might want to be a liberal christian, believing the one but not the other. Personally, when faced with a rotting apple, I'd rather eat a better fruit than try to cut any good parts away from the bad ones.

lpetrich

From this summary; I'm not sure exactly where in the Buddhist scriptures it's taken from:

M. 63

Should any one say that he does not wish to lead the holy life under the Blessed One, unless the Blessed One first tells him whether the world is eternal or temporal, finite or infinite: whether the life-principle is identical with the body, or something different; whether the Perfect One continues after death, etc.-such a one would die ere the Perfect One could tell him all this.

It is as if a man were pierced by a poisoned arrow and his friends, companions or near relations should send for a surgeon; but that man should say: `I will not have this arrow pulled out, until I know, who the man is that has wounded me: whether he is a noble man, a priest, a tradesman, or a servant'; or: `what his name is, and to what family he belongs'; or: `whether he is tall, or short, or of medium height'. Truly, such a man would die ere he could adequately learn all this.

Starboy

Whispers, this was the kicker. When you started speaking for god then I knew you were a ringer. I don't think a Buddhist would do that.

And this bit here:
Sounds just like one the many commercials for Christianity. Now if Richard had some flaws and you were as balanced as you claim I would expect to see some commentary on the negative side and I might think that this was a real story, but as you paint it, it is just toooo good. Like Jesus has given him all the answers.

You claim to be here because you are a seeker of "truth". But you sure don't act like it. You behave more like a monger of "truth".

Starboy

Whispers

Good stuff. In conclusion then, it is fair to say that the Buddha would not comment on, or offer answers to creation based questions as he felt that they could not help the individual's spiritual life in the present moment. He felt that those sorts of questions only led to further questions and could not help a seeker find truth....

Whispers

As I mentioned earlier, I was merely expounding a Christian held point, which is not necessarily my own. Its just the way I post sometimes and I have already been advised, that it can confuse things (thanks Rhea). I apologise for confusing you.

I also did say at the begining of this thread that I dont want you to think I am exaggerating, because I am not. I wasnt, and in all the time I have known him, I have not discovered any flaws worth talking about. However, this does not mean that he is free from faults, merely that I do not witness them. You are taking what I have said, assuming much, refusing to listen to what I now say and continuing to call me a liar. It could be suggested that you are the one preaching here, and not me.

I do not wish to get into a heated debate here with you, I wish to learn from you. But if you suggest something that I know is not true, then I will tell you.

Starboy

Arg! I would expect a Buddhist to say something like 'my Christian friends say X' as opposed to the Christian-speak in your posts.

Perhaps you are right, but if you are the seeker of "truth" you claim to be I would expect you to look for such things and to take care in how you present you observations of Christianity. They were entirely too fawning to expect from a self proclaimed Buddhist.

Don't worry about me. If you are as you say you are then I am just flat out wrong and will admit in due course, however if you post on this board for any length of time and you are a fraud you will not be able to hide it. If atheists are anything they are skeptics.

Starboy

Whispers

Starboy, I hope to post on here regularly for a while. This forum interests me greatly and I hope we can discuss and debate many issues. No need to admit anything to me, when you finally realise that I AM a Buddhist with a loose turn of phrase

JP2

Whispers, I've read through this thread and I'm still not sure what you expect any of us to say. If, based on what you have experienced, Christianity is the religion for you, then what else can I say but go for it? As everyone else here has pointed out though, unless you're planning on stepping outside the bounds of reality altogether, just don't expect it to change your life profoundly. As I think has already been pointed out, happiness and goodness come from within, not without. Richard would be a good person without Yehwah - in fact that would be a good question to ask him. Does he believe he would be a radically different person without God? Are there any elements of his person that could not possibly exist without his beliefs? Suffice to say, from my perspective, it shouldn't be hard for the intelligent, empathetic person to discriminate between what is right and what is wrong. You shouldn't need a book to tell you that.

If you find the Christian religion appealing, then you're going to need to ask yourself why that may be. Is it because Christianity strikes you as being the belief system that best describes the world as you see it? Do you believe that God must necessarily exist, and that this God must necessarily be the God depicted in the Bible? If not, then you must question your attraction to the religion and I'd start by examining what may be an emotional or spiritual void in your life. What role do you believe Christianity could fulfill in your life that could not be fulfilled by any other means? Remember, it needn't be an either/or situation here. You can still incorporate the teachings of Jesus or other Biblical prophets into your life without accepting the metaphysical side of the Christian faith. You don't have to believe in Yehwah to live by the teachings his "son" gave. You don't have to spiritually immerse yourself in the Christian - or any other - religion to incorporate the (debatably) worthy philosophies it/they propound.

Aside from that I don't think there's anything else we can offer you. If you want to become a Christian or explore Christianity then I'm not sure there's any point in us trying to dissuade you. The atheists here (myself included) reject Christianity for a number of reasons, each of which we could explore in depth, but if you feel a "spiritual" attraction to it - that cannot be subdued by reason or logic - then there's not much else we can do. If you want to adopt the Christian spirituality then, hell, go for it. I'm just not sure what you expect to find.