Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ps418 · 02-26-2002, 01:08 PM

Nic,

Just wanted to say Bravo! The article has evolved quite a bit since the last time I looked. I thought the discussion of peppered moths was excellent.

Patrick

Dr.GH · 02-26-2002, 01:11 PM

I must point out that I own a copy of Mein Kampf to be better able to counter creationist claims that evolutionary biology and anthropology are "responsible" for Nazis. This has come up over and over.

I won't buy a copy of Wells, because he might make a nickel from the sale.

[ February 26, 2002: Message edited by: Dr.GH ]

bluefugue · 02-26-2002, 02:12 PM

A very minor proofreading point in the subsection of the Peppered Moths segment entitled "The Scientific Literature."

Quote:

The scientific literature. Having dealt with Wells "most serious objection," let us turn to Wells' use of the scientific literature.

And another, from the conclusion:

Quote:

But as we have seen, in every single case, the actual biological experts in their specific fields of expertise in fact agree that the actual evidence in their field supports modern evolutionary theory. Furthermore, many of these scientists have felt sufficiently strongly about this that they have published critiques creationist misinterpretations of their work. Many of these scientists have felt sufficiently victimized by Wells to write specific rebuttals of him.

Also in the conclusion:

Quote:

Through most of the book, veritably every sentence contains some sort of illegitimate slant, whether quoting a scientist out of context, or leaving out crucial pieces of information,

Are you sure you didn't mean "virtually"? Even then, it's a pretty strong claim.

I wish I could comment on something other than grammar, but it all looks good to me...

[ February 26, 2002: Message edited by: IesusDomini ]

RufusAtticus · 02-26-2002, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr.GH:
I must point out that I own a copy of Mein Kampf to be better able to counter creationist claims that evolutionary biology and anthropology are "responsible" for Nazis. This has come up over and over.

Well then, could you please fix the assertion at the bottom of this page.

<a href="http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=000132;p=" target="_blank">http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=000132;p=</a>

-RvFvS

Dr.GH · 02-26-2002, 09:09 PM

Hey Redtop, I'll try to feed you something in the A.M. I caught this post kinda' late. Gary

ps. That Helen is a pisser aint she? The whole evilution=racism argument is bull shit and anyone with half a brain knows it.

pangloss · 02-27-2002, 06:47 AM

I pointed out his not-so-honest use of a quote in my Amazon.com review....

Dr.GH · 02-27-2002, 12:30 PM

RufusAtticus, There is virtually no place in Mien Kampf where it is intelligible to
translate Entwicklung as “evolution” just as there is no reference to Darwin. In the
notion of “race,” the Nazis referred themselves to Mendel, not Darwin. Darwin was
indifferent to the mode of inheritance, and his ideas on this were more constant with
Lamarck than Mendel. The Nazi’s rejected Lamarck as egalitarian and Marxist, as they
interpreted his theory of inheritance to imply that all races were equal. (Darwin had
written himself that races merely differed in terms of local environment, and cultural
history.) Fritz Lenz, M.D. was the one man most intellectually responsible for the
application of eugenics to the Nazi death machine. Racial Hygiene: Medicine under the
Nazis by Robert Proctor is a book that I think that anyone seriously involved in the
Creationist vs Science debate should read.

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0674745787/qid=1014844897/sr=8-2/ref=sr_" target="_blank">http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0674745787/qid=1014844897/sr=8-2/ref=sr_</a>
8_19_2/102-

I would demand that the exact references be presented by DAVID PLAISTED for both of his stupid suggestions.

MrDarwin · 02-28-2002, 09:11 AM

Nic has leveled a rather serious allegation against Wells with regard to his own "icon" of the origin of phyla in the fossil record. Not having read the book, I can't really comment on it--is this particular figure in Wells' book available somewhere on the web?

Valentine Pontifex · 02-28-2002, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrDarwin:
Nic has leveled a rather serious allegation against Wells with regard to his own "icon" of the origin of phyla in the fossil record. Not having read the book, I can't really comment on it--is this particular figure in Wells' book available somewhere on the web?

Basically Wells has a chart with pyla on page 40. He has phyla 'a' through 'r' (with a end note saying what they stand for.

a,b,c,e,f,h,j,m,n,p,r start in the Cambrian.
g,k,q started just before the Cambrian.
d started in the Ordovian (just after Cambrian).
l,o start in the Devonian.

tgamble · 02-28-2002, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LordValentine:


Basically Wells has a chart with pyla on page 40. He has phyla 'a' through 'r' (with a end note saying what they stand for.

a,b,c,e,f,h,j,m,n,p,r start in the Cambrian.
g,k,q started just before the Cambrian.
d started in the Ordovian (just after Cambrian).
l,o start in the Devonian.

So all phyla didn't appear in the cambrian according to wells. hmmm.

02-26-2002, 01:11 PM	#12
Dr.GH Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dana Point, Ca, USA Posts: 2,115	I must point out that I own a copy of Mein Kampf to be better able to counter creationist claims that evolutionary biology and anthropology are "responsible" for Nazis. This has come up over and over. I won't buy a copy of Wells, because he might make a nickel from the sale. [ February 26, 2002: Message edited by: Dr.GH ]</p>

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02-26-2002, 01:08 PM	#11
ps418 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Louisville, KY, USA Posts: 1,840	Nic, Just wanted to say Bravo! The article has evolved quite a bit since the last time I looked. I thought the discussion of peppered moths was excellent. Patrick

02-26-2002, 09:09 PM	#15
Dr.GH Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dana Point, Ca, USA Posts: 2,115	Hey Redtop, I'll try to feed you something in the A.M. I caught this post kinda' late. Gary ps. That Helen is a pisser aint she? The whole evilution=racism argument is bull shit and anyone with half a brain knows it.

02-27-2002, 06:47 AM	#16
pangloss Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,302	I pointed out his not-so-honest use of a quote in my Amazon.com review....

02-27-2002, 12:30 PM	#17
Dr.GH Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dana Point, Ca, USA Posts: 2,115	RufusAtticus, There is virtually no place in Mien Kampf where it is intelligible to translate Entwicklung as “evolution” just as there is no reference to Darwin. In the notion of “race,” the Nazis referred themselves to Mendel, not Darwin. Darwin was indifferent to the mode of inheritance, and his ideas on this were more constant with Lamarck than Mendel. The Nazi’s rejected Lamarck as egalitarian and Marxist, as they interpreted his theory of inheritance to imply that all races were equal. (Darwin had written himself that races merely differed in terms of local environment, and cultural history.) Fritz Lenz, M.D. was the one man most intellectually responsible for the application of eugenics to the Nazi death machine. Racial Hygiene: Medicine under the Nazis by Robert Proctor is a book that I think that anyone seriously involved in the Creationist vs Science debate should read. <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0674745787/qid=1014844897/sr=8-2/ref=sr_" target="_blank">http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0674745787/qid=1014844897/sr=8-2/ref=sr_</a> 8_19_2/102- I would demand that the exact references be presented by DAVID PLAISTED for both of his stupid suggestions.

02-28-2002, 09:11 AM	#18
MrDarwin Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 4,140	Nic has leveled a rather serious allegation against Wells with regard to his own "icon" of the origin of phyla in the fossil record. Not having read the book, I can't really comment on it--is this particular figure in Wells' book available somewhere on the web?

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