Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Goliath · 10-13-2002, 07:43 PM

Seraphim,

Quote:

SURE. I notice most of you post that God doesn't exist from Christian point of view.

Huh? Do you mean "I notice that most of you say that the xian god does not exist."? If so, then not all of us claim this, since weak atheists (such as myself) merely lack belief in the existence of any god.

Quote:

Do you think that there is no other religion other than Christianity?

No, I do not.

Quote:

I love to see someone tries to prove there is no God through Hindusm or Buddhism.

Huh?

Quote:

what do you belief which gives you faith?

I have no faith.

Quote:

And if you say faith and belief is not necessary to have strenght, then show me some examples of people without faith who have strenght to move on.

Very well, I submit myself as an example. I have no faith, and yet I manage to live life just fine, thank you.

Quote:

I'm no Christian either.

Well, you don't seem to be an atheist. So, which religion do you belong to?

Quote:

Which one?

The one about "whenever you guys see someone else who is different, you all gang up on him and try to scare him into following you ... "

Sincerely,

Goliath

Goliath · 10-13-2002, 07:46 PM

Seraphim,

Quote:

And in WHAT way does Pascal's Wager proves that there is NO God?

It does not. Again, I have no burden of proof regarding the non-existence of any god, since I do not believe that no gods exist. You, on the other hand, being a theist, have made a claim that a god exists. The burden of proof is thusly on YOUR shoulders to prove your claim.

Please, pay attention.

Sincerely,

Goliath

K · 10-13-2002, 08:13 PM

Quote:

"Do you really believe that PW shows that the odds of God existing is 50/50? Does that also apply to lotter tickets - you either have the winner or not? "
By K

My reply - True. Just like a lottery - 50/50 chance you win if God exist, you win of God doesn't exist (since you won't be going to hell or heaven without a God).

Now I know you're trolling. You gave yourself away way too easily.

10-13-2002, 08:34 PM

"Huh? Do you mean "I notice that most of you say that the xian god does not exist."? If so, then not all of us claim this, since weak atheists (such as myself) merely lack belief in the existence of any god."

My reply : And how do you come up with such conclusion, may I know?

In my opinion, you have no rights to say there is no god to an non-Christian, since he too do not believe in Christian God nor Jesus. Take note as well.

What is the difference between a weak Atheist and a strong (if there is one)?

"No, I do not."
My reply : Because you believe there is no such God in ANY form or religion? OK, acceptable as personal opinion, unacceptable as an opinion in a forum trying to disapprove God.

"Huh?"
My reply : Was it hard to understand? I said that I love to hear any Atheist try and prove there is no God which Hindus, Buddhist, or Taoist believed in. This religions came before Christianity or Muslims come forward.

"I have no faith."

My reply : Acceptable.

"Very well, I submit myself as an example. I have no faith, and yet I manage to live life just fine, thank you."

My reply : Yourself? Acceptable but still not suitable for a public forum nor disccussion since I do not know anything about you, your background nor your way of life. And I've no idea how your journey will end and what you will face in your journey till the end either.

"Well, you don't seem to be an atheist. So, which religion do you belong to?"

My reply : Enough if I say that I don't believe that life will end after death on this world alone. Life is not Eternal, Death is not an End.

"The one about "whenever you guys see someone else who is different, you all gang up on him and try to scare him into following you ... "

My reply : Thank you for point it again. What was the problem with it again?

10-13-2002, 08:41 PM

"It does not. Again, I have no burden of proof regarding the non-existence of any god, since I do not believe that no gods exist. You, on the other hand, being a theist, have made a claim that a god exists. The burden of proof is thusly on YOUR shoulders to prove your claim.

Please, pay attention."
By Goliath

My reply : And I'm WILLING to prove that there is God and I will not use Religion only. I will also use Physics and Quantum Physics (including models of working mechanics - made by men) as example. Do you ACCEPT such example as my prove and counter it with your own argument?

To prove there is a God, first I will have to prove there is a Soul, then what is heaven and hell and finally God. Is this acceptable?

"Now I know you're trolling. You gave yourself away way too easily. "
By K

My reply : Trolling? Give myself away? I don't lie so I speak the truth, why is that such a bad thing?

Nataraja · 10-13-2002, 10:00 PM

Pascal's Wager is easy enough to take down.

Fundie: *does the Pascal's Wager dance*

Skeptic: *makes up a deity who doesn't mind if you don't believe or even care very much how you go about your life*

Fundie: That's ridiculous!

Skeptic: How very true, Mr. Pot.

I hope that no one will mind if I do a phrase for phrase take-down.

[ October 13, 2002: Message edited by: Nataraja ]</p>

10-13-2002, 10:03 PM

Go and do your "take-down" dance somewhere else, I'm waiting for answers for some important questions.

Nataraja · 10-13-2002, 10:10 PM

In compliance with Seraphim's wishes, I will not do a complete debogusification of Pascal's Wager.

The abbreviated one I gave above is complete enough, so screw it

Devilnaut · 10-13-2002, 10:21 PM

Seraphim:

Quote:

And I'm WILLING to prove that there is God and I will not use Religion only. I will also use Physics and Quantum Physics (including models of working mechanics - made by men) as example.

By all means, start a new thread and present your proof.

Seraphim, from an earlier reply to me asking if he would admit that Pascal's Wager fails:

Quote:

Pascal's Wager is a failure when it comes to multi-deity with a Single God society such as Hindusm, Buddhism and Toaist/Chinese, thus it should not be consider a proof in proving whether there is a God.

I will take that as a yes.. but I don't understand this next paragraph:

Quote:

And for your information, you should educate your fellow Atheists not to use such examples in places where people like Hindus, Buddhist and other non-Christian or non-Muslims hangs on, they WILL take it very personally and you people will have to prove this arguement one more time.

What argument? Pascal's Wager is not an atheist argument.. what are you referring to here?

Edit to add:

Seraphim:

Quote:

I said that I love to hear any Atheist try and prove there is no God which Hindus, Buddhist, or Taoist believed in. This religions came before Christianity or Muslims come forward.

Atheists don't need "proof" of the inexistence of all Gods of all religions for their position to be rational. The only thing that would render atheists' position irrational is for it to be held in the face of compelling evidence for a God's existence.

[ October 13, 2002: Message edited by: Devilnaut ]</p>

10-13-2002, 10:40 PM

"By all means, start a new thread and present your proof.

Seraphim, from an earlier reply to me asking if he would admit that Pascal's Wager fails:"

OK then ... where shall I put the thread ? I probably tomorrow since I will be Off work in about an hour.

"I will take that as a yes.. but I don't understand this next paragraph:"

My reply : Yes, it is a failure.

"What argument? Pascal's Wager is not an atheist argument.. what are you referring to here?"

My reply : I'm referring to the fact that there are some Atheists (example - Corgan, why else I should bother stating this argument) who making this argument as if it is already proven whether or not such thing as God exist. If they do things like that here, fine ... no harm done, but they should present such failed argument in a multi-racial forum, then he or she is in for an argument which he or she cannot simply escape from. Ask Corgan and you will know how many time he get whacked from me.

"Atheists don't need "proof" of the inexistence of all Gods of all religions for their position to be rational. The only thing that would render atheists' position irrational is for it to be held in the face of compelling evidence for a God's existence."

My reply : Atheist also do not believe in Souls I believe. Is that true? In that case, get ready to back-up your argument.

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10-13-2002, 08:34 PM	#54
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	"Huh? Do you mean "I notice that most of you say that the xian god does not exist."? If so, then not all of us claim this, since weak atheists (such as myself) merely lack belief in the existence of any god." My reply : And how do you come up with such conclusion, may I know? In my opinion, you have no rights to say there is no god to an non-Christian, since he too do not believe in Christian God nor Jesus. Take note as well. What is the difference between a weak Atheist and a strong (if there is one)? "No, I do not." My reply : Because you believe there is no such God in ANY form or religion? OK, acceptable as personal opinion, unacceptable as an opinion in a forum trying to disapprove God. "Huh?" My reply : Was it hard to understand? I said that I love to hear any Atheist try and prove there is no God which Hindus, Buddhist, or Taoist believed in. This religions came before Christianity or Muslims come forward. "I have no faith." My reply : Acceptable. "Very well, I submit myself as an example. I have no faith, and yet I manage to live life just fine, thank you." My reply : Yourself? Acceptable but still not suitable for a public forum nor disccussion since I do not know anything about you, your background nor your way of life. And I've no idea how your journey will end and what you will face in your journey till the end either. "Well, you don't seem to be an atheist. So, which religion do you belong to?" My reply : Enough if I say that I don't believe that life will end after death on this world alone. Life is not Eternal, Death is not an End. "The one about "whenever you guys see someone else who is different, you all gang up on him and try to scare him into following you ... " My reply : Thank you for point it again. What was the problem with it again?

10-13-2002, 08:41 PM	#55
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	"It does not. Again, I have no burden of proof regarding the non-existence of any god, since I do not believe that no gods exist. You, on the other hand, being a theist, have made a claim that a god exists. The burden of proof is thusly on YOUR shoulders to prove your claim. Please, pay attention." By Goliath My reply : And I'm WILLING to prove that there is God and I will not use Religion only. I will also use Physics and Quantum Physics (including models of working mechanics - made by men) as example. Do you ACCEPT such example as my prove and counter it with your own argument? To prove there is a God, first I will have to prove there is a Soul, then what is heaven and hell and finally God. Is this acceptable? "Now I know you're trolling. You gave yourself away way too easily. " By K My reply : Trolling? Give myself away? I don't lie so I speak the truth, why is that such a bad thing?

10-13-2002, 10:00 PM	#56
Nataraja Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NC Posts: 433	Pascal's Wager is easy enough to take down. Fundie: does the Pascal's Wager dance Skeptic: makes up a deity who doesn't mind if you don't believe or even care very much how you go about your life Fundie: That's ridiculous! Skeptic: How very true, Mr. Pot. I hope that no one will mind if I do a phrase for phrase take-down. [ October 13, 2002: Message edited by: Nataraja ]</p>

10-13-2002, 10:03 PM	#57
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	Go and do your "take-down" dance somewhere else, I'm waiting for answers for some important questions.

10-13-2002, 10:10 PM	#58
Nataraja Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NC Posts: 433	In compliance with Seraphim's wishes, I will not do a complete debogusification of Pascal's Wager. The abbreviated one I gave above is complete enough, so screw it

10-13-2002, 10:40 PM	#60
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	"By all means, start a new thread and present your proof. Seraphim, from an earlier reply to me asking if he would admit that Pascal's Wager fails:" OK then ... where shall I put the thread ? I probably tomorrow since I will be Off work in about an hour. "I will take that as a yes.. but I don't understand this next paragraph:" My reply : Yes, it is a failure. "What argument? Pascal's Wager is not an atheist argument.. what are you referring to here?" My reply : I'm referring to the fact that there are some Atheists (example - Corgan, why else I should bother stating this argument) who making this argument as if it is already proven whether or not such thing as God exist. If they do things like that here, fine ... no harm done, but they should present such failed argument in a multi-racial forum, then he or she is in for an argument which he or she cannot simply escape from. Ask Corgan and you will know how many time he get whacked from me. "Atheists don't need "proof" of the inexistence of all Gods of all religions for their position to be rational. The only thing that would render atheists' position irrational is for it to be held in the face of compelling evidence for a God's existence." My reply : Atheist also do not believe in Souls I believe. Is that true? In that case, get ready to back-up your argument.

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