Amen-Moses

Originally posted by Loren Pechtel
We have the equipment. The locals don't. The equipment is *VERY* expensive. We have guys trained to use and fix the equipment. They don't. Israel would rightly be *VERY* afraid if we supplied Saudia Arabia with the sort of force needed to stop Iraq.

What equipment? What equipment do you think the US is using in Saudi or SK that the locals don't have?

Saudi has the latest in radar, missiles, aircraft, shit they even have AWACs. They also have some of the best pilots in the world, I used to work at the base where they are trained and although they don't come up to the best in the RAF they sure beat most other countries (except Jordan and Oman of course who also get trained by us).

As for other countries that could help--that's basically only western Europe. Infantry isn't of a lot of use there.

Eh? I don't understand what you are getting at, what Infantry and where is "there"?

I wonder if you realise that the majority of UN peace keeping missions are NOT carried out by US forces?

Amen-Moses

Loren Pechtel

Originally posted by Amen-Moses What equipment? What equipment do you think the US is using in Saudi or SK that the locals don't have?

It's far more a matter of quantity than the items themselves. The certainly don't have things like the F-117, though.

Eh? I don't understand what you are getting at, what Infantry and where is "there"?

I was referring to the gulf.

I wonder if you realise that the majority of UN peace keeping missions are NOT carried out by US forces?

Peacekeeping missions are done to keep low-level squabbles from starting and getting out of hand. They aren't meant to stop a major invasion.

Hubble head

Interesting seeker. Insight I doubt I'd get on the regular news here.

(drunken Americans) Marines I knew who had been stationed in Korea said the ROK Marines were the hardest SOBs they ever trained with. Some said they placed the ROK soldiers ahead of the IDF in toughness. I'm not sure they need us as much as we think, but they still need us.

The US used to have the world's largest combined arms exercise (CAX) with SK, Japan, Australia, (who is our England in that corner of the globe military-wise) and a few other smaller countries every few years called Team SPIRIT back before Desert Storm 1. Many believe this was only carried out to intimidate the North Koreans. Interesting how peace talks have accelerated without this going on every few years now.

I see another cuban missile crisis brewing. That one brought us to the brink of nuclear war- I wonder what this one will do.

Vorkosigan

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Zar
Are there 35,000 troops of any foreign nation massed near our borders (the U.S., that is)? I would bet that would chafe the U.S. leadership and citizenry somewhat.

Which large power shares a common border with the US along western Alaska? And what troops did it have there in the 50s, 60s and 70s?

Amen-Moses

Originally posted by Loren Pechtel
It's far more a matter of quantity than the items themselves. The certainly don't have things like the F-117, though.

Oh yes the vaunted stealth technology, I remember back in 92 when the first one flew into England and we radioed them to ask who the fuck they were and the reply came back "but you can't see us" to which we laughed heartily before telling them to turn on their IFF or die quickly.

I was referring to the gulf.

Sorry I still don't get you, are you saying that the only part other countries gave to Gulf War II (the first was Iran vs Iraq btw) was Infantry? If so you are vastly under informed.

Peacekeeping missions are done to keep low-level squabbles from starting and getting out of hand. They aren't meant to stop a major invasion.

If you think 35,000 drugged up US wimps will stop the NK invading if they so wished then again you are very mistaken. US forces are pretty much derided all over the world and the fact that the US has never actually ever won a battle on their own doesn't fill other countries with fear you know!

Amen-Moses

Loren Pechtel

Oh yes the vaunted stealth technology, I remember back in 92 when the first one flew into England and we radioed them to ask who the fuck they were and the reply came back "but you can't see us" to which we laughed heartily before telling them to turn on their IFF or die quickly.

Yeah, stealth isn't perfect. However, when the AA can't see you and the only real risk is a golden BB it's a big advantage.

Sorry I still don't get you, are you saying that the only part other countries gave to Gulf War II (the first was Iran vs Iraq btw) was Infantry? If so you are vastly under informed.

I'm saying that outside basically the NATO powers there's little other than infantry available for peacekeeping.

If you think 35,000 drugged up US wimps will stop the NK invading if they so wished then again you are very mistaken. US forces are pretty much derided all over the world and the fact that the US has never actually ever won a battle on their own doesn't fill other countries with fear you know!

There have been basically two wars where we were alone--Korea and Vietnam. Due to the situation both were inherently unwinnable. Thus this says nothing about our military abilities.

elwoodblues

Look again. No one's saying that 35,000 US troops will do more than make them pause IF NK decides to invade. It's more a matter of appearance and statement of common cause with SK, which ideally prevents the invasion in the first place.

This makes me wish you were trolling. I don't think you are, but I'd sleep better if you were.

What the hell does 'on their own' have to do with the price of tea in India? The US did the vast majority of the fighting in Desert Storm, attacking at a 2:1 disadvantage, when you generally need a 3:1 majority when attacking. Rolled over them, with most friendly casualties from friendly fire (and those well within proper limits).

To be sure, NK is another can of beans altogether. But it's not like the US military is a bunch of hick rednecks with shotguns riding around in pick-up trucks. I don't know what kind of axe you have to grind, but try to make it a little reasonable, at least.

Zar

Hi Vork,

I guess you mean the USSR. Well, that would have been a drop in a sea of problems the U.S. did in fact have with that country, so I guess you could say the USSR did chafe the US quite a lot. Didn't dealings with them sort of define American foreign policy for the most part?

Now, if we shared a common border with an enemy, that is bad enough dealing with any military presence near a border, but when the U.S. puts bases all over the globe to remote places that border nothing in particular adjacent to it or vital to its survival beyond some remote need to be THE global force, that has to be a thorn. As someone just related, this positioning does indeed have some affect on domestic Korean policy, as one would expect, especially if they see it as disrupting to their social order. Seems kind of elementary to me.

Seeker196

Oh, and the 'tough SOB' quality of certain Korean units comes from there being severely abused, lied to, and beaten (in some cases), particularly the infamous independant paratroopers and special forces unit.

These guys are beaten with shovels, made to run into walls (if you don't have blood on your face, you didn't do it hard enough) and all kinds of crazy shit.

A bunch of their vets are suing the government because of this abusive, involuntary training after a few deaths. Some units are like the Japanese Army in WW2, i.e. beatings are are simply part of regular training.

Story in the paper about a recruit in one of these boot camps who happily leaped off a cliff they were running on, shouting 'Live well comrades!' and dying.

Amen-Moses

LOL, I'd love to be in the room when you tell the parents that!

btw we are still waiting for those drugged up pilots to be extradited here for their crimes!

I spent 15 years in the military and can assure you that apart from a few elite units the US military is pretty much seen as inefficient and badly trained by many other countries. Great improvements have been made in recent years but that was during the streamlining excercises of the 90's. Now that there is an expansion of the US forces I expect that many of those improvements will be undone.

Amen-Moses