Autonemesis

Are you saying that only god can make people experience love, that no one experiences love of their own accord?

This description of Hell brings up many, many questions. Will people living on Earth (Hell) at those post-judgment times be able to continue scientific investigations? Can we build spaceships and go to other planets, maybe terraform Mars? Will we be able to form governments and enact laws, collect taxes? Will we each have to hold down a job, or does immortality obsolete food, clothing, and shelter? I imagine living as a member of a race of 20 billion immortal, indestructable beings with a lot of free time on their hands and no inclination to become religious to be The Very Definition of Heaven on Earth.

But you will no doubt offer some attempt at an explanation for how these 20 billion persons will be prevented from doing any of this, or anything else I'd call productive, all the while insisting that god is still absent from this world.

Oh, but I remember: love and hence all things good come only from god. RJS, this leads to the conclusion that people have no free will, but do good only at god's bidding, or at best in ignorant mimicry of god, like a trained pet. There are many reasons to object to this view, it's repugnancy not the least of them. Can you explain how your beliefs avoid this dismal conclusion?

RJS

yes

brighid

Then why the need for Hell, especially if he forgives all?

B

RJS

All I know is that you will be tormented by such existence. What may sound good now, might not then.

RJS

Lets see - maybe for those that dont ask for forgiveness and repent.

brighid

But if he is a loving and perfect God why does one need to ask for forgiveness? Especially if His gift is FREE? But hey – you still haven’t gotten around to answering most of the other questions I have posted here? So, are you going to tackle those, or just answer the easy questions you already have cookie cutter responses to?

MrDarwin

We're talking eternal damnation here, aren't we? But what about those who ask for forgiveness and repent after death and damnation? Since you say that God loves the damned, why would God withhold from them the possibility of repentance, forgiveness, and relief from suffering? Sorry, I just don't get it.

[ May 17, 2002: Message edited by: MrDarwin ]</p>

Mageth

RJS:

Back on page 7 I posted:

When someone gets terminal cancer or a horrible disease like Ebola, it's hardly comparable to a vaccination.

The child needed the shot; otherwise much worse things could happen to them. You, unlike god, are not supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent, and thus you don't know and can't create a less painful alternative to the vaccination.

I hear xians talking about how pain and suffering are used by god to do this or that. God is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent, and omnibenevolent as well. Thus he should be able to come up with an alternative to pain and suffering to accomplish his goals. Since he hasn't, he either can't or won't, and thus he's one of not omnibenevolent, not omniscient, or not omnipotent, or a combination thereof.

You replied:

I would use the term analagous, not comparable. Think about it from the 3-year olds perspective and the parent's too.

Fine, but how can you make an analogy without comparing?

From <a href="http://poets.notredame.ac.jp/cgi-bin/wn?cmd=wn&word=analogy" target="_blank">here:</a>

analogy (sense 2) -- (drawing a comparison in order to show a similarity in some respect

comparison, comparing -- (examining resemblances or differences)

And I notice you didn't actually respond to the point of my post. Note that I would add the fact that you are presumably benevolent to your daughter, so if there was a way to avoid the most suffering (actually contracting a disease the shot is meant to inoculate against) without inflicting the pain of the shot, you would use it.

RJS

I gotta tell you, I dont remember which question I have not answered. I know I have posted over 100 times in 48 hours. I have likely received multiple hundreds of questions. If there is one or two pressing questions you have for me, please reiterate them and I promise to tell you what I think. And I will likely even engage in follow-up dialogue with you (provided we keep a decent tone.)

brighid

I haven’t posted all that much in here – specifically go back to the first few pages and reread my posts.

Brighid