Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Starboy · 11-11-2002, 11:18 AM

Gurdur: Where do you live?

Castaway · 11-11-2002, 11:34 AM

To Gurdur:

Martin Gardner! Martin Gardner! Science, Good, Bad and Bogus I am reading his book right now.

It's good stuff!

Oxymoron · 11-11-2002, 11:37 AM

The question "is there a God?" is probably impossible to answer in its abstract form.

However, the religions describe not an abstract God but a concrete one (or ones). The deities' existences are quite testable, historically, philosophically and scientifically, and - as an atheist - I reject them all.

I do not live in an abstract world where the debate about existence of an abstract God or how many angels can dance on the head of a pin has any meaning other than whimsy. After all, no believer on the planet believes in an abstract God without absorbing the trappings of whatever social and cultural context they live in.

So I say: be atheist, be proud.

Starboy · 11-11-2002, 11:54 AM

Oxymoron:

Isn't religion contradiction in action. To be a Christian requires that one be able to engage in double think. Accepting only confirming facts but ignoring all disconfirming facts. Isn't that the essence of faith? If a person is stuck in the mind trap of Christianity it is all well and good to point that out, but Christians cannot see it because they have been taught to think it all makes sense.

Kind if like the woman who can't guage distances because all her life she has been told that something that is only four inches is a foot long.

Starboy

Oxymoron · 11-11-2002, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy:
<strong>Oxymoron:

Isn't religion contradiction in action. To be a Christian requires that one be able to engage in double think. Accepting only confirming facts but ignoring all disconfirming facts. Isn't that the essence of faith? If a person is stuck in the mind trap of Christianity it is all well and good to point that out, but Christians cannot see it because they have been taught to think it all makes sense.

Kind if like the woman who can't guage distances because all her life she has been told that something that is only four inches is a foot long.

Starboy</strong>

Hmmm... double-think. Yes, quite possibly. Certainly religious faith is denial, a mechanism to keep out reality because the world becomes incomprehensibly complex and frightening without it. It's about people projecting how they want the world to be onto how they perceive it.

It's not clear that all believers see two sides though. Science and philosophy are really quite hard, and few believers take much notice of the history and 'geneaology' ('memeaology'?) of their religion. I fear a large number of the pious just swallow the whole pill without a second thought.

Starboy · 11-11-2002, 12:36 PM

Perhaps most Christians cannot see both sides, but there have been Christians that have visited this forum and claimed that they accepted science and history and yet still believed in the supernatural events of the resurrection as is required to be a Christian. IMO that is a clear cut case of double think. In all cases of Christianity they do appear to be stuck in a "truth" trap.

Starboy

[ November 11, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]</p>

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11-11-2002, 11:18 AM	#31
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	Gurdur: Where do you live?

11-11-2002, 11:34 AM	#32
Castaway Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Midway Posts: 47	To Gurdur: Martin Gardner! Martin Gardner! Science, Good, Bad and Bogus I am reading his book right now. It's good stuff!

11-11-2002, 11:37 AM	#33
Oxymoron Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: http://10.0.0.2/ Posts: 6,623	The question "is there a God?" is probably impossible to answer in its abstract form. However, the religions describe not an abstract God but a concrete one (or ones). The deities' existences are quite testable, historically, philosophically and scientifically, and - as an atheist - I reject them all. I do not live in an abstract world where the debate about existence of an abstract God or how many angels can dance on the head of a pin has any meaning other than whimsy. After all, no believer on the planet believes in an abstract God without absorbing the trappings of whatever social and cultural context they live in. So I say: be atheist, be proud.

11-11-2002, 11:54 AM	#34
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	Oxymoron: Isn't religion contradiction in action. To be a Christian requires that one be able to engage in double think. Accepting only confirming facts but ignoring all disconfirming facts. Isn't that the essence of faith? If a person is stuck in the mind trap of Christianity it is all well and good to point that out, but Christians cannot see it because they have been taught to think it all makes sense. Kind if like the woman who can't guage distances because all her life she has been told that something that is only four inches is a foot long. Starboy

11-11-2002, 12:36 PM	#36
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	Perhaps most Christians cannot see both sides, but there have been Christians that have visited this forum and claimed that they accepted science and history and yet still believed in the supernatural events of the resurrection as is required to be a Christian. IMO that is a clear cut case of double think. In all cases of Christianity they do appear to be stuck in a "truth" trap. Starboy [ November 11, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]</p>

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