Daleth

Having thought about it (having not been able to take my mind off it), I've decided it's best I not post further to this thread regardless of whether or how keyser_soze replies. I'm not really sure what I said to earn such a heated response, or whether it's just keyser's emotion on the subject and not so much me. Perhaps I've stated my point badly and perhaps I'm plain wrong and a predetermined plan to use lethal force against any attacker regardless of circumstance is the best thing for society.

If any survivor of rape found anything I had to say offensive, I'm sincerely sorry. Please let me know through a PM, because I am not going to know what not to do again otherwise.

Dal

brighid

Daleth,

Nothing you said offended me in the least way (and I have survived a violent attack that was meant to be a rape and some other sexual assaults in my youth.)

I honestly think your ability not to feel scared all the time is a positive thing. I wish more women could feel the same way.

I would encourage you to continue posting because your point of view is important and you do a very good job of presenting that pov with poise.

Furthermore, as a woman I agree with your position.

Brighid

livius drusus

I agree with Daleth. I never knew the paranoia of womanhood until I moved to the States from Italy when I was 18. I walked the streets of Rome at 2:00 am, a nubile (okay maybe not so nubile, but still) teenager, rarely sober, entirely alone never once fearing anything more than a purse snatching. Not because rape doesn't happen in Italy. It does, obviously. But there's no constant refrain of terror drummed into women's heads.

On the quaint little streets of a tiny college town in the Berkshires, however, I learned fear. Not because anything ever happened to me, but because the hype was just constant. Rape, rape, rape, rape, battery, sexual assault, could happen any time, be vigilant, watch your back, scrutinize shadows. Women: be afraid or be dead.

Yes this is a violent society, but most women will still live out their lives unassaulted. I found it an impoverished kind of existence to assume danger as the default. So I stopped. That doesn't mean I'm an idiot. There's a time and a place for vigilance. I just think the crime problem is blown absurdly out of proportion (mainly by the usual cast of media pimps slinging mindless emotionalism and sensationalized horror stories), and the disproportion is off the scales when it comes to crimes against women.

beth

Liv, I truly wish I could live out life in such a manner as you described in Italy.

yguy

Ditto that. Keyzer's just an emotional guy, Dal. There's no reason for you to back off. If I didn't give him a coronary, it's not likely you will.

The AntiChris

For what it's worth, what you've said seems eminently sensible to me.

Chris

noli

Okay Amen-Moses. No harm, no foul, although I was this close <holds thumb and index about one inch apart> from asking you if you'd prefer my next reply single spaced or double and in triplicate.

As to your point...Yes. stats are a demon.

Daleth

Thank you livius, Chris, Cupcake and particularly brighid (who I was about to send a PM to specifically asking how she felt about it). I really appreciate it. This is the only topic I have ever come across where I feel so timid about expressing my thoughts, not having been there myself. It really scares me just to speak because there is such a vocal public position about sex crimes, and it can seem like any questioning or slight modification of it is construed as opposing it.

Dal

Vandrare

this is exactly what i'm referring to! most of the rapes carried out dont end in murder for the victim, so lethal force to save your life isn't applicable.

like daleth has said, why does killing someone rather than injuring to the point where you can get away, have to been the one sudden knee jerk reaction to this?
also, to be properly trained to the point where you are safer with the gun rather than the opposite would take a very long time and have to be constantly worked at through your whole life.... who exactly has the time for this?!

:-D Anna

Amen-Moses

An apt anecdote just came to mind.

A friend of mine had a 17 year old daughter who had since the age of six been training in Tae-Kwondo and she was damn good at it as well, she had several championships under her belt (sic) by the age of 17.

Anyhow one night she was walking home alone, as usual, from training wearing her gear (so it was bloody obvious she was a Martial Artist) and felt that someone was stalking her. After 10 minutes or so she decided to stop and face whoever it was even though by then she was rather panicky. As she turned the stalker suddenly rushed towards her and she instinctively kicked out and then ran as he hit the floor.

On arriving home she told her father what had happened and he called the police. They found the guy by checking the hospitals, he was in A&E with a three broken ribs and a punctured lung, apparently he was an escapee from a local psychiatric ward who had a habit of jumping on women and sexually molesting them by grabbing their breasts (he did it regularly to the nurses apparently even though each time gained him another bruised groin).

Her Martial arts had saved her from such an ignominious fate but, as the police pointed out, as she had not warned him first she would if she had been 18 have been up on a grevious bodily harm rap.

(privately of course they cheered her on )

Such is the legal system in the UK.

Amen-Moses