Goliath

Amie,

One need not have an opinion on what something is in order to not hold a belief regarding said thing.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Amie

We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. One would have to know the definition of something before saying they believe in it or not.

Novowels

Hello.

I think the "definition of something before one can believe in it" debate is missing the crux of the problem.

People use words, but words are just symbols. If I were to ask you if you believe in "angels" it means, "do you believe in servants of God, that send messages/protect people/massacre firstborn children/all the other stuff angels do." The word is a symbol of the thing. I am not asking you if you believe in "angels" I am asking you if you believe in the concept of what an angel is. You have a belief for that, whether you knew the word "angel" or not.

You have a belief system for everything. You either believe or you do not believe in "gryxnatels" -- whether you have heard of the word or not. You either believe or you do not believe in the concept behind "gryxnatels." The problem, mirroring the faith/belief debate, is that words are a clumsy tool when it comes to defining things. A gryxnatel might be a purple monkey with wings. You already have a belief about purple monkeys with wings, the word "gryxnatels" was simply a symbol for that thing.

Let's do an example. I do not believe in disembodied spirits or entities. That includes angels, demons, ghosts, and gods. Therefore, whatever word one chooses to associate with one of these spiritual entities, whether it's "the archangel Michael" or "the grand jumvoloxiderikan" or "the invisible pink unicorn," I already have a belief whether that thing exists, even if I haven't heard of one of them. I may have to ask, "what the hell does that word mean?" but I already have the belief system in place. That belief can be based on faith, or it could be based on experience, or it could be based on scientific understanding.

I cannot remember who said it, but one of my favorite quotes is:

"Words are simply small noises that hide the truth."

Unfortunately, it is the best medium we have.

To add to the chorus here, I also do not have faith in anything.

The last thing I had faith in was that I could help everyone in the world come to their senses and become nontheistic. This faith was unfounded, as all faith (IE, not a belief, but pure faith) is at the root, and it crashed up against the shores of reality and, opposing it, was destroyed.... As all faith that conflicts with reality eventually must. (unless you protect it from big bad reality, like many people do with religious beliefs)

capnkirk

Goliath,

You overstate your case. What if 'saldfjag' is just what they call theists in Beylarus? You DO believe in theists, don't you?

Goliath

Amie,

I have shown again and again and again that your assertion quoted above is demonstrably false. If you wish to say that "I have to know the definition of something before saying whether or not I believe in it," then that's fine (and that's your loss). However, please do not presume to speak for me.

Sincerely,

Goliath

hezekiah jones

No, Amie's right. What you need to do is go around and poll all 6.3 billion people on earth for their subjective definition of god before you can truly claim you don't believe in it.

Mad Kally

Amie, I was in an accident once which put me into a coma for a month. I died on the OR table and was revived twice. I saw some very strange things in vivid detail during that time, as well as the entire month after surgery. I can still remember the people I met in my dreams/hallucinations? None of them had anything to do with god/angels, etc. But I know what I saw was just as real as what you saw. Or should I say it seemed real at the time and is still vividly real in my memory. I'm sure there are people who would say the nice lady I met was an angel.

However I'm aware that it was a combination of hypoxia and morphine. You are an RN same as I am. My hallucinations could have been interpreted in a different way in every different religion or culture around the world. I didn't see an angel because I do not believe they exist. I met a real nice lady, I traveled with an Indian tribe and so on. I even went on a tour of Europe. I remember the peoples clothes they were wearing, I can still see their faces. The beautiful places I visited. All of this is permanently burned into my brain without any need for faith.

Infinity Lover

You have explained what your assertion is based on, but I wouldn't go as far as saying you've demonstrated something beyond debate.

Unless you can explain what a saldfjag is, how can you claim a saldfjag is indeed something you don't believe in? With such a statement you basicly turn a lack of positive assertion, into a positive assertion by ascribing a specific nature to it.

Amos

You lucky Kally because Camus reported that all he could see was "horror" and you saw a beautifull lady and even went on a trip to Europe.

The interpretation of your experience is that these vision of yours are part of your soul and you just had a "tour the soul."

The hypoxia and morphine were the primary cause for you to enter your soul nature and if you don't like the word soul, just call it your subconscious mind wherein you are a descendant of your ancestors. To be sure, you were in a coma an not rational while yet you remember instead of conjured all the things you saw.

These visions of yours could not have been interpreted different because they are a reflection of your nature in your culture in your world as a civilized human being.

Mad Kally

Whoda thunk huh Amos?

It's medication time again.

Nurse Kally