Freethought & Rationalism Archive

SanDiegoAtheist · 06-27-2002, 01:12 AM

Jamie_L - beautifully done. I hope you don't mind, but I cut & pasted (then added a few sentences of my own) your letter largely intact to Senator Feinstein (my senator, who I have voted for the past 2 terms).

I hope a LARGE turnout of letters shows up on the Senator's desk, and points out that no matter how loudly the Religious Right protests, the nonreligious of us are a force to be reckoned with as well.

Cheers,

The San Diego Atheist

Jamie_L · 06-27-2002, 04:21 AM

All,

Thanks for complements, and feel free to use what you will. I realize that it's probably not quite the right format for a letter to a government official, and certainly too long for a letter to an editor. It might be good, however, for e-mail chain-lettering to pass along to liberal religious types. I got the fire in my belly last night, and wasn't much in the mood to tailor the format.

Jamie

The Other Michael · 06-27-2002, 06:07 AM

I just had the thought that it might be worth mentioning in some of the letters that the old "godless" pledge got the USA through WW2 and the Korean Way.

Since WW2 is frequently seen as the great War Against Evil maybe pointing out that we united behind the pledge sans god can make a small point or two.

cheers,
Michael

A coworker just pointed out that the WW2/Korean War generations grew up saying the original pledge, and they are characterized as the "great" generation (or something like that).

However, it's the Boomers, known for their ungodly protests/lifestyles/lack of patriotism etc that grew up reciting the new pledge.

Food for thought? If nothing else it might act to stump someone while you regroup.

M

[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: The Other Michael ]</p>

99Percent · 06-27-2002, 06:26 AM

Thanks Jamie_L, I sent your letter to the local newspaper here in McAllen (<a href="http://www.themonitor.com/" target="_blank">The Monitor,</a> a surprisingly libertarian newspaper here in bible land Texas).

I told them to delete the fifth and sixth paragraphs if they think it was too long. I think it looks quite nicely that way too.

I will let you know if it gets published. I have good hopes it will since I think my letter is going to be one of the very few anti god ones they will receive and the newspaper editor, being of libertarian leaning, is going to like it.

Viti · 06-27-2002, 07:46 AM

Good points...thanks d'Naturlaist for reminding me to include my American Heritage.

I am an 11th generation American, I am eligible for membership in the Daughters of the American Revolution as ancestors on both side fought in that war. My mothers family name is written on a wall in Tennessee as a founding family of that State. Both of my Grandfather's won Purple Hearts in WW2, my Great Grandmother was a Native American (Choctaw) and had to pass as white to keep off the reservation. My genealogy shows ancestors arriving here in 1717 for fuck's sake!

Those people who are saying I am not an American or should "get out" can go fuck themselves.

Godless Dave · 06-27-2002, 08:01 AM

Here's what I wrote to the local paper:

Quote:

The first words of the first amendment to our Constitution are “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”. That means citizens of this country can pray whenever they want, wherever they want, to whatever god they want, but the government cannot make anyone pray or tell anyone what god to believe in. Yesterday the Ninth Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals ruled this means while schools can make students recite the Pledge of Allegiance, they can’t make them say “under God” – a phrase that isn’t even in the original Pledge. Makes perfect sense to me. Unfortunately our President and Senate don’t seem to understand the Constitution they are sworn to uphold. Thanks to the first amendment Americans have more freedom of religion than anyone else in the world. But our government wants to take away that freedom and tell everyone they have to believe in a god, their god, to be an American. It’s not good enough for them that they can pray in church, at home, at school, even in the halls of Congress. They want to make everyone else worship their god too.

That’s downright un-American. My distant ancestors came to this continent because they didn’t like the Church of England telling them how to worship. One of them died on Bunker Hill to win that freedom for his descendants. Now our own government wants to take that freedom away.

And here's what I wrote to one of my Senators (whose Jewish). I think it's helpful to start with an ass-kissing sentence when writing to an elected official. In this case it was easy, because I really did support this guy, until yesterday.

Quote:

Dear Senator Wellstone,

I have been a supporter of yours since 1990 when I heard you speak at a rally at Macalester College. Since your election to the Senate you have been a refreshing voice for the disadvantaged and a defender of human rights, human dignity, and the American way. You have not hesitated to stand on principle even when it meant opposing your colleagues in the Senate. I was therefore greatly disappointed when I learned that you had voted for yesterday’s Senate resolution condemning the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals decision that the addition of “under God” to the Pledge of Allegiance was unconstitutional. I had thought that as a member of a religious minority yourself you would understand how important it is to keep the government from forcing religious beliefs on citizens. Congress could just as easily insert “under Jesus Christ” into the pledge. How would you feel about that?

I am sorry you do not think non-religious Americans like myself are important enough to deserve the same protection under the law that other Americans enjoy. And I am disgusted that you do not seem to understand the Constitution of our great country, which as a Senator you are sworn to uphold. Important as it is to keep a Democratic majority in the Senate, I don’t know if I can bring myself to vote for you this November, since you have made it clear that my civil rights do not matter to you.

Corwin · 06-27-2002, 08:27 AM

I still have to think of something to write.... I have a few choice words for a few senators... both my local one and the one I voted for in the last election. (I lived in a different state then, and have recently returned to the one I grew up in.) Both Democrats, and I expected more from them.

RogerLeeCooke · 06-27-2002, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrowman:
<strong>As a long time writer of letters to the editor, may I offer some cross-Pacific advice.

Jamie_L and d'Naturalist have bother offered excellent letters, although of course both may need to be modified and trimmed for particular audiences. No point in writing a 400-word letter to a newspaper that won't publish anything over 300 - or worse, edit at their whim.

Main thing - keep the language moderate and reasoned. Avoid terms like "crazy collection of people" and "knee-jerk reaction" (which I saw somewhere). Avoid anything even remotely pejorative or disrespectful of you opponents, no matter how strongly you feel. Do not give them any opportunity to criticise you on anything other than the issue at hand.

This is the time to make a difference, not make a point.</strong>

Excellent points! May I suggest letters to the editor similar to the one I plan to write?

"In all the furor over the court decision declaring the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional, a few points seem to have been missed:

1. The Pledge did not always have the words "under God" in it. When I learned it back in the 1940s, they weren't there.

2. Has anybody asked what is gained by making people recite words they don't believe? How does it contribute to the unity and strength of the country to make hypocrites of 10 percent of its inhabitants?

3. If people can be forced to say they believe in God in order to be considered citizens (this was the position taken by our 41st president, by the way), why can't they be forced to say "through Christ our Lord" at the end of the Pledge? Where's the line between the two things?"

Dark Jedi · 06-27-2002, 10:58 AM

I wrote a letter to the editor that went like this:

Quote:

There has been a considerable uproar about the 9th District Court's ruling on the pledge. I see lots of petitions being circulated, and lots of public opinion going around. The primary thing that the public seems to be missing is that the Supreme Court not accountable to the people, only the Constitution. This is part of the checks and balances that make the U.S. a great nation. Without this system, majority rule would soon turn in to mob rule.

How would the opponents of this diecision feel if the pledge read "under NO gods" and had been declared unconstitutional? The same guidelines that make one a violation would make the other. To truly have freedom of religion, people must be free of any government influence of any kind on the subject.

A caller on a national Morning Show said that she was "disturbed" that Newdow would raise his daughter as an atheist. She said that he shouldn't "force" it on her. This was taken in stride by the audience. If that statement had been made about raising a child as a Christian there would have been pandemonium. Why the double standard, America?

Petitions and polls are pointless in this issue.When the dust settles only the 9 Supreme Justices will will be casting the final vote.

I am composing one for my Senator (Sen. Ben "Nighthorse" Campbell), who's support of the Congressional resolution surprised me. He is Christian, and Republican, but has been very level headed and liberal in the past. Enough so that I voted for him twice! I suspect he is only a Republican because it is so much harder to be elected as a Libertarian.
His reply will determine whether or not I vote for him again.

PopeInTheWoods · 06-27-2002, 11:39 AM

Here's mine (not sent yet):

Quote:

I support the Ninth District Court's finding that the school-led recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance, containing the phrase "under God", is in violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, and therefore unconstitutional.

Quite simply, the phrase is a governmental declaration that a certain god not only exists, but influences our nation. At best, this assertion contradicts the beliefs of millions of patriotic Hindus, atheists, Wiccans, agnostics, Buddhists, and other non-monotheists. At worst, it can be used by members of the dominant religion (currently Christianity) as governmental endorsement of their "rightness". Either way, an "under God" Pledge led by school officials tramples on the rights of a large minority of Americans to worship or not worship as they please.

To those who would favor the official recognition of a deity by the government, and to those who may think that this case is making a big deal over nothing, I leave you with a question. Would your position on this issue be different if the phrase being considered were "under Allah"?

Comments please? I'll be sending it soon.

Andy

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06-27-2002, 01:12 AM	#11
SanDiegoAtheist Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: San Diego, CA, USA Posts: 281	Jamie_L - beautifully done. I hope you don't mind, but I cut & pasted (then added a few sentences of my own) your letter largely intact to Senator Feinstein (my senator, who I have voted for the past 2 terms). I hope a LARGE turnout of letters shows up on the Senator's desk, and points out that no matter how loudly the Religious Right protests, the nonreligious of us are a force to be reckoned with as well. Cheers, The San Diego Atheist

06-27-2002, 04:21 AM	#12
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	All, Thanks for complements, and feel free to use what you will. I realize that it's probably not quite the right format for a letter to a government official, and certainly too long for a letter to an editor. It might be good, however, for e-mail chain-lettering to pass along to liberal religious types. I got the fire in my belly last night, and wasn't much in the mood to tailor the format. Jamie

06-27-2002, 06:07 AM	#13
The Other Michael Honorary Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In the fog of San Francisco Posts: 12,631	I just had the thought that it might be worth mentioning in some of the letters that the old "godless" pledge got the USA through WW2 and the Korean Way. Since WW2 is frequently seen as the great War Against Evil maybe pointing out that we united behind the pledge sans god can make a small point or two. cheers, Michael A coworker just pointed out that the WW2/Korean War generations grew up saying the original pledge, and they are characterized as the "great" generation (or something like that). However, it's the Boomers, known for their ungodly protests/lifestyles/lack of patriotism etc that grew up reciting the new pledge. Food for thought? If nothing else it might act to stump someone while you regroup. M [ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: The Other Michael ]</p>

06-27-2002, 06:26 AM	#14
99Percent Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: my mind Posts: 5,996	Thanks Jamie_L, I sent your letter to the local newspaper here in McAllen (<a href="http://www.themonitor.com/" target="_blank">The Monitor,</a> a surprisingly libertarian newspaper here in bible land Texas). I told them to delete the fifth and sixth paragraphs if they think it was too long. I think it looks quite nicely that way too. I will let you know if it gets published. I have good hopes it will since I think my letter is going to be one of the very few anti god ones they will receive and the newspaper editor, being of libertarian leaning, is going to like it.

06-27-2002, 07:46 AM	#15
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	Good points...thanks d'Naturlaist for reminding me to include my American Heritage. I am an 11th generation American, I am eligible for membership in the Daughters of the American Revolution as ancestors on both side fought in that war. My mothers family name is written on a wall in Tennessee as a founding family of that State. Both of my Grandfather's won Purple Hearts in WW2, my Great Grandmother was a Native American (Choctaw) and had to pass as white to keep off the reservation. My genealogy shows ancestors arriving here in 1717 for fuck's sake! Those people who are saying I am not an American or should "get out" can go fuck themselves.

06-27-2002, 08:27 AM	#17
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	I still have to think of something to write.... I have a few choice words for a few senators... both my local one and the one I voted for in the last election. (I lived in a different state then, and have recently returned to the one I grew up in.) Both Democrats, and I expected more from them.

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