emphryio

I'm looking for some sanity. Is there anybody here who is aware that Jim Moran is not an anti-semite? Does anybody understand what the hell is actually going on?

(It appears he dared to mention that lobbyists have a great deal of influence and went the step further in pointing out that the jewish lobby (whom are pro war) in particular has great influence.)

How is this anti-semitic?

(I don't want to waste my time arguing this with any corporate lackies, I just need to know that someone out there has a clue. If you have a clue, please respond with agreement or whatever.)
(I need my "drop of reason.")

Zar

Jim Moran may have made the mistake of using the word "jew" when he made a criticism. This is taboo. It should not be taboo, but it is. Critical words are allowed for every other ethnic group but this one. The holocaust was horrendnous, but this does not absolve jews from being mere human beings.

I do not know how someone in high public office can possibly address anything to do with Israel and jews without being politically assasinated. I really don't. Moran could have said the "Israeli lobby" and would have gotten the same response. If he had said "French lobby" about something no one would have complained, and many would have supported him.

As an African American, I can deal with the fact that criticism of black leaders (i.e., Jesse Jackson, the disgusting opportunist) is an acceptable point of discussion, even if one has to tread lightly. And the political landscape of America ceratinly does not prohibit such talk. In fact, nothing seems to prevent anyone from holding public office when they say things like public housing needs reform (an issue tradtionally ascribed to blacks.) They may get resistance, but there is no taboo. It is discussed openly. I actually agree that it needs reform. Look, blacks have suffered slavery and apartheid in their past. Why should that prevent discussion of the future?

In the same vein I have nothing but disgust for groups like the Anti-Defamation League and the Jewish Defense League who shut down any and all talk of jewish issues as if they cannot do any wrong. No human institution is beyond reproach. Jews are no exception.

But let's not be unreasonable. Many jews defend multicultutal issues and openness because they know what it is like to be discriminated against. They are often an ally of anyone who wants justice for all peoples of all races. But sometimes people among them either take advantage of their cause or make mistaken judgements that do more harm than good.

America must, must grow beyond this. It is a matter of life and death, literally.

I don't know why black, Muslim, chinese or other groups have been unable to form as poweful a lobbying presence as some jews have. Maybe somehow their brownness or yellowness prevents them from forming easy ties. I don't know. But the fact is that jews have an advanced influence above all non anglo-saxon groups. This can be a very good thing, in the sense that many jews help create a more diverse and interesting world for all of us. They can really help to build a great society. Unfortunately, some take things too far, like Richard Perle, the traitorous giver of classified secrets to Isreal, who I despise, and who I think should be in prison. This is no different for me from the deplorable actions and statements of Jesse Jackson or Louis Farrakhan.

To me they are just another form of extremists that have a "final solution" agenda on their minds. All people of democratic spirit must fight them.

emphryio

Thank you for replying Zar.

I felt blaming racism was just a ruse to avoid the question of undemocratic influence from lobbyist.

The strange attitude surrounding being critical of anything Jewish is a problem. But I think the bigger problem is that just discussing the influence of lobbyists is simply not allowed in the mass media. From "Pigs at the Trough" by Arianna Huffington, lobbying is a 1.55 billion dollar industry. There are 38 lobbyists for each and every member of Congress.

What the hell does a lobbyist do other than influence politicians?

Instead of daring to investigate this issue, the media helps out in the huge rush to call Mr. Moran an anti-semite.
It would be impossible to really discuss this issue in America today. Anybody who went beyond some ridiculous generalized statement like, "blacks, etc just need to get more organized," would be branded an anti-semite if not a racist in general.

John Hancock

Zar

Very good post. :notworthy

Martin Buber

Zar

emphryio,

Yes, you certainly have a point there. Instead of "anti-semitism", I think the term used for shutting down all discussions of the influence of lobbyists and corporate power in general is: conspiracy theory.

Once someone raises the "c" word, our culture has a built-in reflex condition to run for cover. This should be the opposite of the truth for Americans, who built their very form of government on a fundamental distrust of concentrated power, but sadly it is how things seem to be.

Martin,

Thank you.

emphryio

Zar
That was a another beautiful post.

:notworthy

I suppose a conspiracy can be defined as a bunch of people keeping a secret. So well, hell yes, there are plenty of actual conspiracies. Dismissing CIA actions as conspiracies is especially annoying seeing as any classified work entails nothing more than keeping a bunch of secrets or going to jail or worse. A bunch of rich men behind closed doors isn't a particularly different situation.
Beautiful point that I'm going to keep in mind. (Ready to ponce on the next person who dismisses something as a conspiracy.)

Lynn of the Prairie

He's a thick-skinned Irish Catholic and he shot his mouth off but he was a good Mayor of Arlington and has been a good Congressman. He was crude but he had a point, unfortunately, not one a lot of people here in the U.S. are wanting to hear right now.

Ariel Sharon is OTOH NOT a good guy. He is a mass murderer which, as this is known and the Isrealis still elected him their PM, they are not so good either. Ah well, we elected reagan here.

OTOH (as Teyve would say) there is not an Arabic or Islamic state save Tunisia and Turkey and Malaysia and Singapore and sometimes Pakistan that's in any way a free country. The rest are ruled either by royals or warlords (Saddam Hussein is one of the latter).

Blake

Well, a minor note of dissent from me: I don't think Jim Moran is an anti-semite, but I do think it's possible to regard his comment as anti-semitic. There is no reason to think that the mainstream Israeli lobby is the determining cause of the Administration's resolve for war, and blaming Jews for having undue, controlling influence over public affairs has a long and revolting history. I'm sure his comment unwittingly fell into this mold, but it was pretty boneheaded nonetheless.

I'm not intending to dismiss any of the good points made here, by the way, just to offer an additional angle.

Zar

A note of clarification.

As I think about this more, I get more angry at Jim Moran for his sloppiness and I find myself disagreeing even more with what he has said. His careless language has put a stain on what might otherwise have be an extremely useful observation. He has helped to discredit himself and others who might have a real point to make. I read some of his incredibly weak and waffling statements about how he has to keep his trap shut now to avoid "spending his political capital" all at once and other such nonsense. Not only did he already piss off the right, but in speeches to the left, he's cowered in fear of losing his job openly and in a very unseemly manner. In addition to all this, I can't imagine a more important thing for him to spend his capital on! What is he saving it for now? Jim Moran is just an embarrassment on top of embarrassment. He is running on pipe dreams if he thinks he hasn't already squandered his political capital. He should never have opened his mouth.

And again, using the word "jew" was a mistake, not the least of which is because "jews" as a group do not advocate this war. That is simply false. I think it is more accurate to say that a small group of devotees to Israel jewish and non-jewish, and a small group of other right-wing nuts who crave power and a "final" solution for American dominance are the ones to focus on.

emphryio

From what I've read, Jim Moran is just another corrupt politician. (Actually that same Arianna Huffington book talks about some of the corrupt deals he's made.)
Still the flak he's received for the initial statement was not justified.

I haven't heard what he said since, but what Zar says doesn't surprise me.