Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ed · 11-14-2002, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy:

Originally posted by Ed:

The problem is how do you determine what a just society is? The Nazis thought their society was "just". On what basis is your definition better than the Nazis?

SB: Ed, the Nazis considered theirs a just society because they excluded most of mankind from their definition of humanity. Any point of view that is exclusionary such as Christianity will also suffer from this defect.

Starboy

Christianity considers all races and religions human and in fact is more inclusionary than many atheists. Many atheists do not consider unborn children human but all Christians that accept the authority of the scriptures do. I notice you did not answer my questions. Is it because you don't have any rational answer?

Jack the Bodiless · 11-15-2002, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Christianity considers all races and religions human and in fact is more inclusionary than many atheists. Many atheists do not consider unborn children human but all Christians that accept the authority of the scriptures do.

Most Christians are pro-choice. It is meaningless to attempt the old "True Christians"(tm) argument here, because the Bible is silent on this topic.

Quote:

I notice you did not answer my questions. Is it because you don't have any rational answer?

Your mind is desperately trying to edit out the stuff that contradicts your religion. Apparently that includes the answers we have given to all of your questions.

Starboy · 11-15-2002, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ed:


Christianity considers all races and religions human and in fact is more inclusionary than many atheists. Many atheists do not consider unborn children human but all Christians that accept the authority of the scriptures do. I notice you did not answer my questions. Is it because you don't have any rational answer?

Hi Ed,

It has been awhile since we have traded posts. How have you been?

You were not answering any of my posts so I had given up on you. I see that you are up to your old tricks.

Christianity is exclusionary because the Christian god is exclusionary. If everyone made it to heaven no matter what they thought or did then you might have a point, but one example of inclusion does not negate all the other instances of Christian exclusion. In this regard they are no different than the Nazis. It all stems from the fact that Christians view themselves as "gods chosen" and everyone else is not.

Starboy

[ November 16, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]

Ed · 11-18-2002, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NOGO:


God could have destroyed them in a blink of an eye. So why way 400 years and destroy innocent people.

Your explanation that we are all guilty and deserving death is just nonsense. If that were the case then 1 Sam 15 would have said what the real reason was that the Amalekites were evil instead it says that the reason is the attack which took place 400 years before.

There is no way out of this, Ed. You are just trying to whitewash the issue. Yahweh is an immoral mythological God.

[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: NOGO ]

No, as I stated above, the overarching reason for death in general is sin and "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God". And the "wages of sin is death." But the timing of a persons death is related to specific events but we usualy dont know what those specific events are. But in this case we do know the reason for the timing. This was not revenge it was just punishment for those who attacked the King's representatives who were actually bringing good things to the world thru God's moral laws. Which would ultimately produce everything good we see in Western Civilization thru Christ.

Jack the Bodiless · 11-19-2002, 12:15 AM

Except that the Bible says otherwise.

Ed, isn't it time to admit to yourself that you are NOT a Christian anymore?

We have established that you have non-Christian morals and you don't believe the Bible.

So what's left for you?

Why continue with this?

NOGO · 11-19-2002, 08:57 AM

Ed,

Please answer my latest posts.

You again trying to confuse things.

You have made some statements and now are attempting to backtrack by going to an old post.

I am not going to waste my time running in circles with you, Ed.

Answer my latest posts or admit that you are wrong.

Ed · 11-20-2002, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy:

Originally posted by Ed:

I am not saying that you as a person are irrational but atheism as a worldview and most ethical systems based on atheism are not as rational as Christianity. They may have some rational aspects to them but their foundation is irrational, ie they are usually based on sentimentality for the human species.

starboy: Ed, I have been following your exchange with NOGO and I think you have summed up your position in this last post. Christian morals do not require any sentimentality for the human species. To take it further, a complete disregard for the humanity of all but gods chosen is required. As such I can see that the Nazis had a very fine understanding of Christian morals, their only defect was they were not gods chosen. Thanks for clearing that up Ed.

Starboy

Hardly. Christianity is the only worldview that has a rational basis for caring about all of humanity and Christ has commanded us to do so. And Nazism is actually taking atheism to its logical conclusion. They were basically just acting on their feelings, they didnt like jews so they slaughtered them. Most modern atheists like all humans but since both actions are based on feelings, why are the actions of modern atheists any better than the actions of Nazis?

Jack the Bodiless · 11-21-2002, 12:50 AM

The Nazis weren't atheists, Ed. They were theists. Most of them were Christians.

Their hatred of the Jews was partly due to envy of their wealth (itself caused by religion: the Jewish near-monopoly on banking for centuries dates back to a medieval Christian prohibition on "usury", or lending money with interest), and partly on blaming Jews for the death of Jesus.

But you prefer to inhabit a parallel Universe.

Agricola Senior · 11-21-2002, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless:
The Nazis weren't atheists, Ed. They were theists. Most of them were Christians.

Hitler and Goebels were (roman)catholics and they were never excommunicated.

NOGO · 11-21-2002, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Ed
They were basically just acting on their feelings, they didnt like jews so they slaughtered them. Most modern atheists like all humans but since both actions are based on feelings, why are the actions of modern atheists any better than the actions of Nazis?

Ed, when you answer my posts and if you get to the logical conclusion of the arguement you will see that the Amalekite massacre is just based on feelings as well. It is hateful revenge.

Killing children for the sins of the parents is morally wrong and Yahweh is no better than the Nazis. Yahweh is a myth.

You are hiding from reality, Ed, so that you can maintain this ridiculous notion that morality comes from the Bible.

If you are honest and want to see the truth then answer the posts.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

11-19-2002, 12:15 AM	#205
Jack the Bodiless Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: UK Posts: 5,815	Except that the Bible says otherwise. Ed, isn't it time to admit to yourself that you are NOT a Christian anymore? We have established that you have non-Christian morals and you don't believe the Bible. So what's left for you? Why continue with this?

11-19-2002, 08:57 AM	#206
NOGO Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 1,562	Ed, Please answer my latest posts. You again trying to confuse things. You have made some statements and now are attempting to backtrack by going to an old post. I am not going to waste my time running in circles with you, Ed. Answer my latest posts or admit that you are wrong.

11-21-2002, 12:50 AM	#208
Jack the Bodiless Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: UK Posts: 5,815	The Nazis weren't atheists, Ed. They were theists. Most of them were Christians. Their hatred of the Jews was partly due to envy of their wealth (itself caused by religion: the Jewish near-monopoly on banking for centuries dates back to a medieval Christian prohibition on "usury", or lending money with interest), and partly on blaming Jews for the death of Jesus. But you prefer to inhabit a parallel Universe.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.