Freethought & Rationalism Archive

01-19-2003, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sabine Grant

Maybe are we dealing with a doctrine which can defy christian principles because at least two participants separate themselves from what you or I understand to be a christian principle.

[/B]

The transformation of the the mind soul and body is what the Christian principle is all about. Would you agree with this?

Jekyll is thinking protestant theology and doesn't seem to know much about Catholicism.

Opera Nut · 01-20-2003, 01:45 AM

One explanation:

Go to the Adipocere page:

http://homestead.adipocere.com/

"There are an estimated 100 MILLION SOAP MUMMIES IN THE UNITED STATES".

Adipocere is also known as grave wax or grave fat. Fat & muscle in dead people often gets waxy and turns into soap (adipocere) in a wet grave. The process is called saponification.

If you've seen the movie Fight Club you know that human fat (actually any kind of fat, animal or vegetable) can be turned into soap.

Bill Snedden · 01-20-2003, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sabine Grant
I raised the similar point earlier to Gemma regarding the insignificance of the body compared to the soul. I have yet to recieve an explanation as to why the preservation of the body is so important in her view as proof that God would manifest Himself thru the " miracle" of preserved bodies of some " saints".

I elaborated on that same point and am also still awaiting Gemma's response...

Bill Snedden · 01-20-2003, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radorth
I don't have to explain how how the cross created 4000 pounds of relics, how Mary's mom came to be called sinless after 800 years, why glossalia wasn't blessed by a Pope until the 80's, etc etc.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

As a former Catholic, I can tell you that most American Catholics don't take a lot of this stuff seriously themselves.

Quote:

Originally posted by Radorth
I have my hands full defending the New Testament and its problems.

What, did you already explain away all the problems in the OT?

Regards,

Bill Snedden
_____________
"There is no god higher than truth." Mohandas Gandhi

Radorth · 01-20-2003, 08:39 AM

What's sadder than this dead saint idol worship is how the definition of "saint" has been changed to exclude all those who Paul so obviously and clearly included, i.e the whole church. This would never be understood by people who had NT truth's slowly wrestled from their ignorant hearts for centuries by Jefferson's "rags of the clergy" and replaced with earthly relics, idols, dead works and purchased graces. There must be an astounding number of rich Catholics in heaven, based on what I've read.

I'm sorry Amos but the blood of Christ alone can make a saint, and there is nothing clearer in the NT. If you ever wish to use the canonical scripture as some sort of starting place, let me know. Otherwise I will assume the Nicene Council was run by Protestants.

Rad

Radorth · 01-20-2003, 08:42 AM

Quote:

What, did you already explain away all the problems in the OT?

I was really hoping you wouldn't ask me that. OK, I'm glad I'm not Jewish either.

Rad

01-20-2003, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radorth
.
I'm sorry Amos but the blood of Christ alone can make a saint, and there is nothing clearer in the NT. If you ever wish to use the canonical scripture as some sort of starting place, let me know. Otherwise I will assume the Nicene Council was run by Protestants.

Rad

Except for the fact that Christ was set free under the name Bar-abbas and it was Jesus who was crucified but not until the entire image of the Jew had been removed from him. So we have on the cross and image that has been stripped of its entire character and you call this the blood of Christ?

No thanks, I am not interested in persuading you of anything but will add that the Nicene Creed was run into the ground by protestants.

happyboy · 01-20-2003, 04:32 PM

amos, just once....could you please speak in plain english? thank you for your time.

happyboy

schu · 01-20-2003, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gemma Therese
I have come to a conclusion about things through prayer, study, thought, and observation. I think you're missing the prayer part.

Gemma Therese

As the late great Robert G. Ingersoll said: "The man who invented the telescope found out more about heaven than the closed eyes of prayer ever discovered."

He also said: "Think of the egotism of a man who believes that an infinite being wants his praise!".

Just who do you imagine an atheist would pray to? That is just plain silly GT. I'm an atheist. You are on a infidel board. You are writing irrational things GT. You don't answer my questions in a rational manner, but you interject unbalanced things like this. That is just madness. This is the kind of incoherence I always get from xians when I question them. The kind of craziness I have learned to expect for people with god in the head.

SanDiegoAtheist · 01-20-2003, 05:27 PM

I find it fascinating that with so many different natural explanations for so-called 'incorruptible' bodies (all of which can be proven to occur, and indeed, as the link above to saponification shows, can occur easily and frequently) that neither GT, nor any of the other millions of Catholics (and other Christians) prayers on these matters have inspired them to realize that mummification is hardly a 'miraculous' occurrence.

Chalk another one up for one of my favorite maxims - "Nothing fails like prayer"

Cheers,

The San Diego Atheist
(incidentally - if you want to be really grossed out, look up pictures of these 'incorruptible' saints' bodies. Some of them look straight out of "Night of the Living Dead" they're so incorrupted).

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01-20-2003, 01:45 AM	#82
Opera Nut Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,671	One explanation: Go to the Adipocere page: http://homestead.adipocere.com/ "There are an estimated 100 MILLION SOAP MUMMIES IN THE UNITED STATES". Adipocere is also known as grave wax or grave fat. Fat & muscle in dead people often gets waxy and turns into soap (adipocere) in a wet grave. The process is called saponification. If you've seen the movie Fight Club you know that human fat (actually any kind of fat, animal or vegetable) can be turned into soap.

01-20-2003, 08:39 AM	#85
Radorth Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,872	What's sadder than this dead saint idol worship is how the definition of "saint" has been changed to exclude all those who Paul so obviously and clearly included, i.e the whole church. This would never be understood by people who had NT truth's slowly wrestled from their ignorant hearts for centuries by Jefferson's "rags of the clergy" and replaced with earthly relics, idols, dead works and purchased graces. There must be an astounding number of rich Catholics in heaven, based on what I've read. I'm sorry Amos but the blood of Christ alone can make a saint, and there is nothing clearer in the NT. If you ever wish to use the canonical scripture as some sort of starting place, let me know. Otherwise I will assume the Nicene Council was run by Protestants. Rad

01-20-2003, 04:32 PM	#88
happyboy Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: on the border between here and there, WV Posts: 373	amos, just once....could you please speak in plain english? thank you for your time. happyboy

01-20-2003, 05:27 PM	#90
SanDiegoAtheist Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: San Diego, CA, USA Posts: 281	I find it fascinating that with so many different natural explanations for so-called 'incorruptible' bodies (all of which can be proven to occur, and indeed, as the link above to saponification shows, can occur easily and frequently) that neither GT, nor any of the other millions of Catholics (and other Christians) prayers on these matters have inspired them to realize that mummification is hardly a 'miraculous' occurrence. Chalk another one up for one of my favorite maxims - "Nothing fails like prayer" Cheers, The San Diego Atheist (incidentally - if you want to be really grossed out, look up pictures of these 'incorruptible' saints' bodies. Some of them look straight out of "Night of the Living Dead" they're so incorrupted).

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