Quote:
Originally posted by CHRISGEN2002:
<strong>Fiach, please! your MRI information DOES NOT CONTRADICT brain reciever theory. Different parts of the brain could be responsible for recieving different characteristics.
[Fiach] Possible but not probable. The experiences can be reproduced spontaneously in stress situations where low amplitude temporal lobe discharges preceed and accompany the OBEs and NDEs, ceasing when the episodes cease. Similarly they can be precipitated by electical stimulation with probes in the temporal lobe. Subdural strips of electodes placed across the Temporal lobe can accurately identify the gyrus producing the spells. Tumours can do it, as well as strokes and Herpes encephalitis. All studied examples show the brain produces the event, not something external. The stimuli seem external but their effent is cellular on the brain cortex, and those stimuli are simple, purely electrical shocks not detailed codes.
But the brain obviously isn't just there to recieve otherwise wants the point of being incarnate in the first place? (if you suppose the After-life hypothesis to be true).
[Fiach] Certainly the brain is a major receiver of information. It comes from visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory, taste, and complex sexual stimulations. I have no idea what incarnate means. But I don't suppose that the after-life hypothesis to be true because there is no evidence that any brain has awakened to consciousness once neuronal apoptosis has occurred (within an hour or two.) That is why they wait 24 hours to declare brain death in brain death protocols.
The brain to me and a lot of other scientists seems to act like a etheric mind sculptor. In each successive life, bad characteristics are removed by mental evolution of the mind through suffering for your mistakes.
[Fiach] This is not scientific methodology leading to your controversial idea. It is more faith based. You hav no proof of reincarnation and all of your premises and conclusion that follow are not valid. It is religion not science.
So Fiach the brain's supossed to uptake new thoughts to teach the etheric mind skill's and build it's character through the many lessons of pain and suffering.
[Fiach] The brain has a substrate of complex circuitry and association areas, upon this experience programs the system to specific details. There is nothing etherial, that is a mediaeval concept with no evidence. Character may indeed be built by pain and suffering lessions but that is experience altering synaptic connections in the complex Fronto-temporal-parietal cirucits.
The interaction between the brain the etheric mind is a 2-way process.You say it's not important what I believe, then why is it important what Dr Susan Blackmore or any of you believe?
[Fiach] What you or I "believe" is unimportant? What can be shown empirically and with reproducible hard evidence is what is reality. It can be changed only if new data is contrary. Science admits that. Etheric minds separate from the neuro-synaptic-axonal neurobehavioural system are weakly hypothetical without evidence apart from wishful thinking.
Psychology (which literally mean's science of the SOUL) is not a science. Psychology is a mess.
[Fiach] Standard Psychology is a phenomonological or observational study that does not use the tools of empirical science and until recently ignored neuroanatomy and neurochemistry, neurochemical receptors and up or down regulation of those receptors. It is quite complex, which delays may from understanding it. It requires a period of study but also requires prerequisites of biochemistry, neuroanatomy, neurophysiology, and the structure of synapses both excitatory and inhibitory. Without that my description seems like Greek to a Welsh coal miner.
There's no agreement between one set of psychologists and another. Dr Susan Blackmore has got a pHD in a bull shit subject. Biology, Chemistry and especially Physics (for other scientists and me) are the subject's that will be responsible for mapping out how the complex matterial brain and even more complex etheric mind interact.
[Fiach] I agree with you on everything but the etheric mind which I consider to be an unproven hypothesis without evidence.
In the USA alone millions of people have NDE's in a given year. No one but a few commited loonies have your stupid Pink unicorn 'experience'.
[Fiach] I have seen many of those patients. They usually see Jesus, God, Mary, or dead relativs and sometimes just the bright light. The Pink Unicorn was a JOKE. Get a sense of humour, mate.
Some people have had NDE's for up to 9 hours after brain death having awakened in a Morgue.
[Fiach] I guarantee you that they were not dead. Cell apoptosis in a brain has never been followed by waking up. NDEs occur in a live brain that has hypoxia, physical trauma, or simply temporal lobe eplileptic seizures. Some are produced by states of intensive meditation. None of those who report them suffered brain death.
Some NDEr's have had NDE's together having both the same experience while they were suppossed to be out of there body. These CONFIRMED reports are a enough for matter obsessed science to be shown to be flawed. I'll collect objective evidence and post it later.</strong>
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[Fiach] The few that I have heard, were possibly explained by talking in the operating room, information given to the patient while in the trance like state, and one fraud where a patient predicted an object in another room but was told about it during the trance. The purveyors of this superstition have conveniently omitted the many OBE's I have heard from patients who describe very incorrectly who was in the Operating Room, and who was in the waiting room. The error cases are vastly greater in numbers, and patients believe they saw the erroneous objects or people. But the tabloid reporter see no profit in reporting the ones who were wrong. Like every year they have psychic predictions but never tally the error rate of these charlatans and wackos at the end of the year.
Don't trust testimonial bollocks as evidence. Demand scientific study that shows either chemical changes, regional metabolic variances, electrical patterns unique to the experiencs, etc. These have thoroughly debunked OBE's and NDE's as anything other than brain generated behvaiour in LIVE brains.
Fiach
07-23-2002, 09:44 PM
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