Stephen T-B

Hello Volker.
Just wondering: are the questions I asked not the kind that astrology is able to answer?

Volker.Doormann

Hello Stephen,
I tell you what. Mrs. Penny Thornton is an astrologer. She has written in book bublished in 1995 in NY about an event in the future of 1997.
[Begin of cites from a book ISBN 0-671-89186-3 Pocket Book, New York, Printing January 1995]
" In the second dream, which I will recount in the present tense since that is how I recorded it in my diary, I am sitting in a sand dune having a picnic. Diana comes towards me, dressed in white with a black cloak around her . She sits down besides me. I feel awkward and unprepared for her sudden and unannounced arrival. She is telling me about someone who is called Peter, who has been fired because of her. Apparently he is going to France and will be undergoing plastic surgery to conceal his identity. She goes on to talk me about William, and while she does this, she holds up a large figure 3 . She then begins to cry, and I comfort her, urging her not to give up on the marriage. She recovers her composure and I take up the topic of Peter, refering to him as a past relationship. "Its's not over. It's very much on, " she says. ...
... I escort her out to her car, and when I return, William is seated in the same chair. He is much older {1989 William was 7} and sporting a beard. He says to me. "They don't tell me everything, you know. For a few minutes we lost complete radio contact with them ... " As he was saying this to me, I saw an event from an aerial point of view Two police motorcycles and a white car streaming ahead, leaving a black car on its own. Two vans approch from either side and prevent the black car from moving forward. [!] The dream ends in chaos and I hear my own voice saying, "Isn't anyone going to do anything ...?"
"...sitting at a large desk, was Her Majesty the Queen. She was delivering a somber speech, but no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't hear what she was saying...."
" [Charles and Diana] were posing for photographs and were seated...on a child's rocking horse. Diana was laughing and Charles was urging her to be more responsible and to look serious for the cameras. There was a flash and a large explosion. All that was left on the stage was an empty car seat on a raised dais."
From this you can learn about this. Is science not able to answer on this telling of the future facts?

Stephen T-B

Thank you.
Your reply leads me to think that astrology
is able to answer the kind of questions I asked.
I am most encouraged by that, and very much look forward to reading your forecasts in respect of one or more of them.

Volker.Doormann

Hello Stephen,
In an answer to echidna in this thread I have written a little bit of that, what is to be seen by astrology and what is not. From this post today I have the impression, that you have not read in full this long thread, what I have assumed before.

Astrology is able to analyze structures and times of special character, but to my knowledge astrology cannot be taken to state specific detailed events for what you have asked. As I have shown, astrology is a simple tool analyzing the planetary aspects, to describe for example a time of crashes full of energy if such planetary constellations is as today, and in the last two weeks. There is no mystic involved, no future seeing, still some knowledge of symbols.

That what Mrs. Penny Thornton has written is not from her knowledge from astrology, but from her sensitivity for the ‘atmosphere’ of the psychic ‘weather’ in general. I never have spoken on this in this forum, but I have discussed with some scientist of Quantum Mechanics, and there is not really a reason, why some future (or past) events should not to be perceived by the consciousness. But it is senseless to discuss this here. Not one acknowledgement was paid to any of those crashes last time.

Astrology can be learned successfully also by Quantum physicists, because it is a logic system, and I do know a lot of physicists, who are satisfied because of its logic.

I do not make predictions in general, but I have learned to analyze a human character from a birth chart. I had taken a view in that of Lunachick here and I have interpreted her something out of that blind, and she has agreed on this in the end.

I am not the astrology. There are millions of astrologers doing their job for money. You can study astrology on a university, and can make a promotion in sociology on it on the Sourbone, France.

Volker

Stephen T-B

You are perceptive, Volker: I did not read all the thread. As you point out, it is very long.

Your reply, however, does make me wonder what practical value astrology has.

(One test would be to ask you to read my birth chart, but I shan’t do that because I realise you did not come to this discussion with any intention of doing such a thing, and secondly because I do not have all the information you would need, for example, the time of my birth.)

But I would like to ask this: if you did read my birth chart, and it told me things about myself I already knew, what would be the point of that?

Could it tell me stuff I didn't already know? For instance, how I would behave if I saw a child drowning (would I risk my life in an effort to save that child, or wait to see if someone else would risk his life, or be frozen by indecision? Could astrology tell me with as much certainty as the actual experience?)
Could it tell me how I would react if I were in a crashing aeroplane? If I saw my wife being attacked? If I were held hostage in a bank hold-up? If I were told I had an incurable disease and had only nine months to live?

If I gave you the time, place and date of my grandson’s birth, would you be able to tell me what illnesses he is prone to? What foods, if any, he should avoid? Whether he is likely to marry once or several times and how many children he will have, or not marry at all? Would you be able to tell me what career he will choose? Where he will decide to live? Whether he will remain on good terms with his parents and his brother?Whether his life will be beset by crisis and tragedy?

In other words, Volker, is astrology useful?

Volker.Doormann

One phone call to your birth town birth register. Many questions. I think your assuming is not that, what you can learn from a chart interpretation. There are many aspects to learn from such a chart. The - in my view - most important point is - if you agree with that, what is written about your character -, that you can learn, that your character is not you, but you have a character (and a car). Same as you have a special hair color and a special skin color, from the DNA from your parents, which is not really you, the character is given as a physical structure in the brain to you, who ever you may be. You have this character, but you are not this character.

Next point is, why do you have this character, and not the character of for example Saddam Hussein? What is the cause? If you know that, why it is, then you can make service on this, as you make service on your body.

You have spoken out questions, containing special things regarding to your thoughts. These thoughts are busy with scenarios of preserving life. Astrology then will explain to you, what are the reason of this busyness in your thinking, and maybe you can perceive then, that your ideas on this are a simple mind program seeing enemies, that runs without your control of a higher consciousness about your mind structures.

The way you can go is to learn on this controlling of your character being all time aware on it. Events as above have not really a meaning in astrology. If you never have read a chart interpretation you can read one here. If you have a grandson, you do not need really such analysis, because you knows you well. But think about, that such analysis can be made minutes after birth, and can give help to understand the very own character of the child. And understanding is also respecting. Knowing nothing about a character of a child for long, can lead to problems and more. A character is a tool of the being, with that the being is able or not able to act. Some people do change the world, and others are satisfied having a wife and a car. One can make use of it, but the ‘one’ is the ‘one’ who must understand his tools, to be able to act adequate with that, for his own and for the community.

Next to this all you can learn, that causality is not only a law in physics, but also a general law in nature. A disorder in nature created by a being as cause creates an effect. But this effect arrives for sure. Some people are thinking, that each morning and each life there is a reset button, that make actions undo. Is not.

The hole philosophy on this is to be recognized starting the understanding of the special own character maybe with the help of astrology.

Volker

Relative Newcomer

Let's all stop, drop and roll...THE TIME IS NIGH.

Arken

I felt a little wobbly this morning, but I think that was due to the vodka martinis I was having last night.

Stephen T-B

I don’t really want to press the button and get another lot of stuff from Volker because his posts read like he wrote them in German and then used an instant translator to turn them into English, and trying to understand them makes my old brain ache.
There are, however, points to be made.
1) Astrology originates from a time when the sun, moon, planets and stars belonged to the order of divine beings; their movements and conjunctions were therefore interpreted as having a divine purpose, either to influence us poor mortals or to presage great earthly events.

2) Modern-day astrologers buy into this mythology, as though we didn’t now know that the constellations of the Zodiac are completely random and arbitrary arrangements of stars and galaxies, spread over millions of light years; as though we didn’t now know what the galaxies and stars are, that our sun is a star, that the planets - some small and rocky, some vast and gaseous - are its satellites.

3) Astrology survives for the very reason that it generates such a vast number of predictions, many of them ambiguous and non-specific, that every now and then one is bound, by the law of averages, to be nearly right. Similarly (as we have seen) the characteristics it ascribes to the various birth-signs are so commonplace, varied and numerous that a few of them are bound to hit the mark. Wishful thinking does the rest.

4) While pretending to be “scientific,” astrologers think that we are what we are and do what we do thanks to occult influences; their “science” is embedded in the mumbo-jumbo of superstitions and ignorance. It ignores everything mankind has learned, and is learning, about the real reasons we are what we are and we do what we do.

Volker.Doormann

This holds for each time. This is bullshit and a desinfornation. Astrology has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with ' the completely random constellations of the Zodiac and the arbitrary arrangements of stars and galaxies, spread over millions of light years'. It is known to all astrologers in the world, that astrologers work only with twelve angle distances of exact 30° measured from the moving point of spring equinox, which depends on the motion of the earth and moon only, - plus the planetes of our solar sytem. Nonsense. This is a send up to all people, who are have learned to understand their character from astrology. If one is not able to grasp astrology, it is of no scientific value, to write such bullshit in a scientific forum. This is blah blah. The writer claim to know the real reasons what we are. That's arrogant. The writer knows nothing about. He was born in this world, and he did not know why, nor does he know where he comes from. He did not know, who he is (nor he can give proof of). The writer never has studied astrology. His absolute unscientific polemic is politics and has nothing, that is to be recognized as of scientific base. Still in this quakering his “science” is embedded in the mumbo-jumbo of superstitions and ignorance. He cannot give any proof of his pseudoscience; his junk is an unfit try to discrediting the science, and art of astrology.