free12thinker

I aboslutely agree. If one were to tell me that Atheists have faith, I would ask them what or who we have faith in? The great thing about Atheists is that our thoughts, feelings, logics come from no one or nothing but ourselves. And since we do not subscribe to an established set of morals or ethics or rules (you get the picture), than there isn't a religion to speak of.

By definition, from Websters collegiate dictionary, religion is (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance 2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices. We don't fall under any of these descriptions. Even if we agree with certian societal practices or institutions, our reasons come from weighing the aspects involved, whereas religion,calls for the commitment and devotion to faith in a system or deity that already exists, no questions asked. Furthermore, agreeing with some institutions or ideas does not mean we have faith, since faith is a blind trust. Atheists see everything just fine. Atheists see everything in whatever shape, size, or color is really is.

See the clear difference?

[ April 17, 2002: Message edited by: free12thinker ]</p>

Princess of Peace

So... Let me get this straight. World peace does not exist. World peace will never exist. And therefore we should not even consider or discuss the concept with a few likeminded people?

Santa Claus does not exist. Santa Claus with his sleigh full of toys going to every single house in at least the United States, will never exist. Does that mean that it is not right to ever bring up Santa Claus, to tell jokes about Santa Claus, to laugh at mall Santas?

It is true that the Invisible Pink Unicorn (PBUHHH) does not exist. Although, given genetic manipulation, who knows? The reason we don't talk much about the Invisible Pink Unicorn (PBUHHH) is that most people in the world have never heard of her.

We claim that there is no evidence that God exists, the same as we claim that there is no evidence that IPU (PBUHHH) exists, or Santa Claus, or World Peace. However, most people in the world have heard of God, and the non-sensical belief in this fiction by other people as well as a few of us ourselves when we were younger really has impacted our lives.

When people stop getting disinherited by their parents, or fired, or otherwise discriminated against due to their lack of belief in God(dess), then we will stop talking so much about her non-existence, but not before.

free12thinker

In what ways has the nonsensical belief impacted your life?

Atheists and other non-theists do not talk about the non-existence of god because we're chastised for holding this opinion. We talk about it because either:
1) We are worried about the impact that such faith has on people's ability to think for themselves
2) We are sick and tired of hearing about him from Christians and Conservatives who want to promote a lifestyle that was adopted by a belief in him.
3) God, and the circles of religion in general have caused more gried and tragedy than we care to remember
4) We are stimulated by the idea and ability to speak our mind (we like to debate and argue, especially about something that's full of contradictions and is completely based on faith, since no one can prove they've ever seen him).

It has nothing to do with the fact that we're stepped on for not believing in him. We're above that. In fact, we don't even hold the burden of proof in such argument. That's why atheists can be calm, cool and collected when discussing the situation.
3) We

Koyaanisqatsi

Indeed. WJ, you appear to be under the misconception that cults are harmless, ancillary aspects of society.

The christian cult is extremely powerful, ingrained and detrimnetal to our society in countless ways (though that count has been attempted here many times in different threads).

It is a cancer that kills a society, not benefits it and like a cancer it should be removed with all due haste and all due attention before it becomes terminal.

Now please, please, please stuff a nice big straw man by misconstruing my comments into a false comparison to Nazi Germany, yes?

[ April 17, 2002: Message edited by: Koyaanisqatsi ]</p>

WJ

Hey koy!

"Indeed. WJ, you appear to be under the misconception that cults are harmless, ancillary aspects of society."

Well, what is a cult? In the context of our discussion, if the idealogy of a cult exists in the minds of human's, what is your point? I mean, I certainly may be missing the obvious here, but a lot of idealogy, concepts, etc. exist in the mind's of many...your point?

Is atheism and theism a mild form of a cult [belief system]?

Walrus

Ender

Koy- i strongly suggest you not to waste your time with this theist- he is far more slippery than a "texan selling snakeoil during summertime."

True to form on this thread, he or she does not engage in a fair conversation and reciprocate equally- i.e. answer questions that were directed at him/her. Instead, like a good theist he continues on ignoring the obvious questions, makes tons of misrepresentations and non-sequiturs in the meantime, and ask self-serving questions that do nothing but justifies his confirmation biases.

Prognosis: expect cheap pseudo-psychological ploys within the next or two posts!

~SPeaker 4 the Death of God~

[ April 17, 2002: Message edited by: Ender ]</p>

Koyaanisqatsi

Yes...?

Christianity.

That such ideology is detrimental to society and we should seek to deprogram all cult members inflicted with it as soon as humanly possible wherever it exists.

Was the cancer analogy not clear enough?

That we as a nation and as concerned citizens of the world should take every opportunity possible to educate our brothers and sisters against the evils of cult indoctrination; that we should expose the lies and hypocrisy inherent within the slave ideology of Christianity, especially, and all other similar snake-oil-salesmen ideology that poisons our collective unconscious; that no expense should be spared to completely erradicate from our society any ideology based on warrior-deity mythologies designed to control and imprison human minds; that all special social priviledges for cults should be immediately revoked and all churches and synagogues should be turned into homeless shelters and that the financial windfalls should go toward an intensive deprogramming campaign in all of our schools and through all of our media and government programs to reveal the inherent and historical evil christianity, especially, represents and, worse, covers up; that our children are taught to be intelligent, free thinking, critical skeptics, who worship nothing but their own abilities to expand their intelligence and knowledge in an unlimited and unfettered manner; that all of humanity is taught from birth that they are directly responsible for everything they do on this planet in this life, both good and bad and that, as a result, they must police themselves first and foremost instead of thinking that some fictional creature will take care of all that crap one way or another for them when they die; that all of humanity understands that we only have each other and there is no Great And Powerful Too RAH Loo deus-ex-machina that will either solve your problems or absolve your sins or grant you salvation so you'd damn well better understand and acknowledge your own value and your own worth and your contribution and your own responsibilities and precisely what is expected of you from society and your fellow brothers and sisters from birth; that there are no "priviledged others" or "chosen poeple" or any other form of ideological piousness rained upon you by any form of divine right including rewards for services rendered so to kill one another in the name of said fictional creature would not be an option and likewise there is no inherent worthlessness that is your punishment for being born so that your self-worth is destroyed the second you are capable of comprehending your native tongue; etc., etc., etc.

Would you like me to go on...?

No, only theism. Atheism is the absence of beliefs.

[ April 17, 2002: Message edited by: Koyaanisqatsi ]</p>

Koyaanisqatsi

Thanks, but I think I can handle him. Nothing I haven't dealt with over a thousand times before.

Excuse me, over fourteen hundred times before.

[ April 17, 2002: Message edited by: Koyaanisqatsi ]</p>

WJ

4 the death of a non-existent concept of God (aka Wiggin!),

Well, if you must, give credit where credit is due. (?)

BTW, does this make any sense: 4 the death of all concepts of a God, yet the concept exists in the mind only, thus mental perceptions of all concepts including the concept of Atheism is false?

Yikes.

Walrus
---------
Atheists have 'God' issues.

Koyaanisqatsi

Cult programming, WJ, cult programming.

That is what needs to be stopped.

Try to keep up.