Just_An_Atheist

Actually, havn't most skeptics who have argued that knowledge was impossible been theists? During the middle ages, there were many theologians who have embraced skepticism, the view that knowledge was impossible, as a means for clearing the way for faith. Pascal, and the fidiests are some examples. However, fideism does not tend to be associated with nontheism, and many claim that knowledge is possible, and that this knowledge leads them to the view that God does not exist. This does not mean that they have convinced themselves that knowledge is impossible, nor does it necessarily entail that they are just warming themselves around the fire of epistemolical doubt.

id.s

Albert ,You're too oppressive.The "meek" shall inherit the earth, and you're just not meek enough .Humility son humility.Here are some TRUTHS you can take home to mommy and daddy and they won't believe you can actually think for yourself.
1) Belief in structure is never neutral
2) All beliefs involve self locating AND understanding how we make meaning of anothers experiences
3) Acknowledge that,at best, all we ever have is partial knowledge
4) Having a power analysis is critical
5) Be transgressive(i.e.)our job is to transgress dominant pedagogy
6) Challenge is essential for transformation and the eradication of social injustice
7) Link the personal and political
8) AVOID dualistic thinking
9) Embrace the complexities,constraints and contradictions of belief
10) Think outside the box
11) Respond to issues and questions which are identified by oppressed groups themselves
12) Respect and affirm the persons position and definition of the problem
13) Be reflexive
14) Honor process
15) Be transparent (no hidden agendas)
16) Share power-De-expertize
17) Work to bridge differences
18) Whenever you don't understand think to yourself"what is it that I am missing".
You may not come up with all the answers but at least you might reason out a practical approach to life.What does impressing your parents with their absurd ideas of life when we can see the results of their beliefs in the very world you live in. Your gOD structure has done nothing but turn man against man in the quest for false verities .Our "father" figure deserves all the disdain man can muster against HIS illogical belief structure and the proof is in telling our parent figures that this is MY life and their confusion is no longer a part of MY life It's a question of growth beyond your restraints to find a glorious new world that needs our help not our condemnation of superior attitude. In other words -Straighten up and fly right, Albert the stoic alcathoholic.

Albert Cipriani

Dear An Atheist,
The ones that were, back in the bad good old days, were burnt at the stake. So since the days of the Inquisition, the surviving skeptics have been non-theists.

Seriously, it wasn’t until after the scholastic period, the late middle ages that people like Wilhelm of Ockham and other nominalists and skeptics began to doubt the certainty of the proofs of God’s existence. Kant, in the 19th century, capped their efforts off and the Protestants accepted his rejection of the rational foundation of religion. Thus, Christians everywhere seek a “personal relationship with Jesus” based upon “blind faith,” a modus operandi foreign to Catholicism.

For Catholics, the Vatican I Council definitively proclaimed that the natural light of reason reflecting on creation leads to theism. This is an infallible irreformable de fide dogma of the Church. “If anyone says that the one true God, Our Creator and Lord cannot be known with certainty in the light of human reason by those things which have been made, anathema sit.” [Denzinger 1806, cf 1785, 1391].

The bible says as much: “For by the greatness of the beauty, and of the creature, the creator of them may be seen.” [Wisdom 13 1-9] “For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made. His eternal power and His divinity also: so that they are inexcusable.” [Romans 1:20]

Tell it to the Judge. You can claim all the ignorance in the world. But ignorance is no defense even in our own worthless legal system. Maybe it will hold more water on Judgment Day, but I wouldn’t put too much stock in it. Your contention that knowledge can lead to ignorance of God is, on the surface, a contradiction in terms, a sort of intellectual equivalent of walking on water. In other words, you’re on thin ice. Cheers, Albert the Traditional Catholic Warming Himself By the Campfire On the Shore Watching Your Progress Across the Frozen Lake In the Springtime

id.s

See how all he really has is pointless old quotes and useless rhetoric.You're like Lt. Dan in forest gump(an analogy of AmeriKa) without a leg to stand on.All you have is faith and that is all religion has had. Any other response is pointless trivializing to try to disprove fact by the use of faith(fiction) It's all in your mind Al, stop trying to oppress people with the logic of delusion. You can't win and neither can they . Time to get real and think real thoughts. ALbert All alone sitting in a frozen lake 'cause he lit his fire under a snowy branch and it just fell putting out his fire so his only solution was to go out on the lake and fall in and freeze to death, cold and alone. Something to look forward to. Something you fear the most .Maybe you should read your old testament and become aware that it is telling the Hebrews to cast off their chains and let themselves free. It explains the role of oppressor and oppressed, unlike the new testament which just tells you to be a puppet of the system(your religious threats and bribes). Paul was a raving lunatic homosexual mysoginist like most people on this earth,like all the pedophile priests that have ruined the lives of countless people Take your beliefs and shove it. Your threats are as shallow as the depth of your thought. Mommy and Daddy may be impressed but the rest of us are just about dead from laughter. You must be a comedian "cause this is some right funny stuff, Albert the Original Catechetic(cathartic).

Just_An_Atheist

Actually, you ought to review my post. First of all, I did not say that knowledge led to the ignorance of God. If one has the view that God does not exist, then there would be no proffesion of ignorance, but of a knowledge claim. This would be enough to refute your view that "atheists" simply console themselves with the view that "knowledge is impossible."

Albert Cipriani

Dear IDS,
Such gratuitous hostility. Such a transfer fixation on my mommy and daddy as a projection of your own exculpatory needs. Where does it come from?

I would suggest you take two aspirin and a repost in the morning, but your hippy past suggests that you require harder stuff. More likely, you are beyond the reach of harder stuff.

So what chance does my softer stuff have of reaching you? Mere logic, my winsome humor, my worthless poetry, and brilliant argumentation stand no chance of withstanding your 18 point program of banal pop-psychology bromides. Like finely carved wood figurines, my art is no match for your ax-shaped fort posts firmly planted in your prejudicial mud. So I’ll leave you to your demons. – Sincerely, Albert the Traditional Catholic

John Page

Albert:

Your dyslexia seems to be kicking in again. Try "Winsome logic, my worthless humor, my mere poetry and brilliant argumentation...."

Attack a man's thoughts, you attack him, however objective he may pretend to be....

Cheers, John

Albert Cipriani

Dear John,
Ha. Thanks for the comic relief. I do have some kind of dyslexia. Let me try it again. How about:

Yeah, that’s what I meant. – Albert

Wyz_sub10

Wow. That's a lot of hostility in only a few posts.

Okay ladies and gentlemen, let's stay on topic and cool it with the flippant remarks please.

Wyz_sub10,
EoG Moderator

Wyz_sub10

I suppose that is often true, but the two are not mutually exclusive. I think it would be more accurate to say that expressing an unpopular opinion takes sociological courage. Simply holding one to oneself, in the face of what you parents, friends and family believe, takes a few different types of courage

I don't necessarily agree with you here, Albert. It may seem that way because we generally accept without question that Jews are not inferior. But imagine being 12 years old. Your teacher tells you that Jews are inferior (and that you are superior), that the Nazi practices against Jews are just and necessary, that they are responsible for the ills of society.

Are you saying, that it does not take intellectual courage for a 12-year old to accept that he is not superior, his family and friends may be doing evil things, his teacher is lying to him, his society's problems are self-inflicted, etc?

It seems to me that acknowledging this to oneself in the face of everything around him that says the opposite, and the implications that this acknowlegdement carries, would require incredible intellectual courage.

No I don't. In fact, I never even implied that courage was a virtue.

This is a false dilemma, Albert. It assumes that belief is accompanied by doubts that said belief might be in vain, and that a lack of belief comes from a fear of being proved wrong or a fear of wasting time.

I know many theists who do not have intellectual courage by your very definition. In addition, the reason I lack belief is not because I do not want to waste my time. If that was the case, why on earth would I spend so much time here?