HelenM

People have written about this in various places on the Secular Web; have a look in the Secular Support and Lifestyle forum; also I think there are written testimonies on this site apart from on the message boards.

I would be disappointed if you could read these boards for a while and not come to the conclusion that there are non-Christians here very much in love with life - people who find inspiration in the beauty all around even though they don't believe in God. Like in Real Life, there are all types here.

love
Helen

Paradisedreams2

Hello Helen glad to finally meet you (so to speak) This whole experience of meeting Athiests is new to me and very interesting. I haven't drawn any conclusions myself but I want to learn from them to better my understanding of them and why they have chosen the path they have.

I do admit my lack of inspiration came from a pretty depressing childhood and found "inspiration" through my faith so my experience is very limited and wonder to myself if it is possible to feel this way. If I had had a better childhood perhaps and new the beauty of inspiration before this faith came I might think differently I suppose. So I want to understand as I learn here.

It would be unfair to say that this inspiration cannot be found in people without a belief in God I have no evidence to conclude that I'm curious only because of my "lack" of it due to my own sad circumstances. Ofcourse much has changed since then and I'm over the past stuff but I'm just reflecting on a few of my thoughts, asking if this can be true or not (I don't know myself).

Do Atheists believe in a soul? Is the idea of a soul considered absurd? Is it considered part of way the human brain works to emmit certain chemicals to make this thing called inspiration or conviction? I have no clue whatsoever and really want to get their thoughts on these things before I "presuppose" anything at all, and to understand as fully as I can as I ask and listen carefully to what they tell me.

This is a hurdle in my personal investigation into God (that sounds weird I know) But does science altogether conflict with scripture? One might do a drive by here and throw something out at me without a thought and expect me to sum up my belief as pure stupidity. But I want all views expressed. Are the conflicts of thought with the truth as "perceived" by christians in refute? Or what the scriptures in and of themselves have to say. Are the verses in dispute to be taken in the manner they are seen to validate or vindicate either side of the issue?

All these are valid questions in order to look at the full spectrum of things in an intelligle way. I've only just begun so I'm a square one with nothing to go on from here unless helped out from the people here.

So there you have it... my sincere inquirey on almost everything and finding a difficult place to start.

Kim

HelenM

waxm

There can be no doubt from scripture that Jesus sinned.

Not only did Jesus become violent and overturn the tables in the temple, but he suffered from moments of human emotion, crying at the grave of his freind and while asking for the cup to be removed from his lips.

The most weighty arguement is supplied by his own words:
Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God.
In this one sentance, Jesus not only proclaims that he is not without sin, but destroys the modern Christian concept of the "trinity", as he clearly defines a vast difference between himself and God.

BTW: The much earlier referance to a stolen horse/ass is not particularily damning.
There is a good deal of evidence in the words of Jesus himself that he was a student of the Essenes, located at Qumran on the shores of the Dead Sea (there are some quite famous scrolls attributed to them.
The Essenes, like Jesus himself, believed in no personal wealth.
They would distribute themselves in every town, thus the horse/ass was community property to be used by all.
It also explains how Jesus knew where things would be located, like the mule itself, and where houses were that they could eat and rest.

Kosh

...and there
shall be a great confusion as to where things really are. And nobody will really know where lieth those little things wi...with a
sort of rackey work base, that has an attachment. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer, and the young shall not
know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers, that their fathers put there only just the night before, 'bout eight o'clock.
- Brian 7:20

aikido7

John's Jesus is made to tell the crowd before the woman adulterer, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

If Jesus was sinless, wouldn't he have thrown a stone?

Amos

"This came about?" That's a good question and my secret to keep. I get into enough trouble as it is and some of the stuff I write may even be damaging to your faith if you are new to Christianity.

Kim this is a good board and I am sure will be a good place for you to be. There is some hard hitters here to shake your faith but that is why it is a good board. I love it here and am kind of a shaker myself.

Welcome and have fun.

Amos

Amos

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HelenSL:

Helen you are just right the way you are and read it as words of encouragement to feel comfortable where you are. But don't be afraid because it was for libery that Christ has set you free and to take up the yoke of slavery and sin a second time would be to stifle that freedom (your conscience should be your guide).

Amos

[ February 17, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>

Paradisedreams2

Hey Helen,
Thanks for the reply I guess I'll get reading... What I meant was I'm reading everything (starting on Einstien) reading here, on science, and ofcourse running into some athiest who would rather cock block you because they don't really know what I'm about. So instead of learning something about what they believe (or don't believe) I'm learning to fist fight on a forum with my keyboard lol!

RyanS2

Hmmm.. what atheists think... I honestly don't think that anyone can answer that. Atheists come in all shapes and creed, because there's no centralized doctrine of beliefs. (Unless we count Bertrand Russell, but I think that's stretching it.) I'm guessing this offer is extended to all in answering your questions.

"I haven't drawn any conclusions myself but I want to learn from them to better my understanding of them and why they have chosen the path they have."

Most atheists see denying religion as a means of affirming themselves. A means of self-empowerment, not a dictatorship based upon commandments by beings from time/space outside of this realm. The synonymous name for atheists/agnostics as "freethinkers" means just that, no holy scripture needs to be cited in defense of an idea, as if that closes the argument. Only logic and science be needed.

"It would be unfair to say that this inspiration cannot be found in people without a belief in God I have no evidence to conclude that I'm curious only because of my "lack" of it due to my own sad circumstances. Ofcourse much has changed since then and I'm over the past stuff but I'm just reflecting on a few of my thoughts, asking if this can be true or not (I don't know myself)."

Both Karen Armstrong and Scott Bidstrup talk about experiences from God, both growing disillusioned as they grew older. You can trigger "God" in an instant from new researches that we have done. An avatar of projection, i.e. an empowered godform is often sustaining for a lot of people, as a means of psychological dependancy. Neurophysiologists are saying it's almost one of the four things the human body seems to need: Food, water, shelter, and God. (That's in, "Why God won't go away").

"Do Atheists believe in a soul?"

In general, no. I think a few select atheists might believe in reincarnation, or have a definition of "soul" that is something more tangible, (i.e. "Self") that they consider their soul, but if you mean an ethereal thing that can translocate itself beyond time/space and wind up on a seperate dimension which is based on occularity, (i.e. I see gold bricks, I feel heat, etc. Things which are part of "eyeball" psychology, just like dreams are), no.

"Is the idea of a soul considered absurd?"

Mostly yes.

"Is it considered part of way the human brain works to emmit certain chemicals to make this thing called inspiration or conviction?"

Deeply. That's a fact, believe it or not. Humans thrive because we are social animals, we work together. Be it destroying something or building something, humans rarely like to be by themselves. Hence the reason, "Us versus them" ideologies are so common. Belief in a God is a powerful motivational factor for conformity, though what God becomes depends on who has the pulpit usually... I tend to think more along the lines of Gott and Xenophanes, "All Gods are men, thus gods oft are a funny thing". (paraphrased). Look at anyone's God and you just see an externalized projection of themselves.

"This is a hurdle in my personal investigation into God (that sounds weird I know) But does science altogether conflict with scripture?"

In general, yes. This doesn't really pose a problem, it's just the thoughts of a group of people, who disagreed with each other, (see Old and New Testament), each clammoring their idea was better than the ones before them. It's hard for atheists to think that a book in which numerous authors have written, expressing different ideas, is somehow supposed to be the divine word of a celestial being. We accept it for what it's worth, it's a partially historical book that is used to express different people's interpretation of God. That neither validates nor disposes of God, but that simple statement goes a long way in understanding the scripture and human nature.

"Are the conflicts of thought with the truth as "perceived" by christians in refute? Or what the scriptures in and of themselves have to say. Are the verses in dispute to be taken in the manner they are seen to validate or vindicate either side of the issue?"

Can you please reword that to explain what you mean? I'm not exactly sure what question you're asking here. Anyway, these are my humble answers, take them for what you will. I'm not sure how accurate a sampling that is of what atheists in general think, but it's a place to start.