Freethought & Rationalism Archive

tronvillain · 03-27-2002, 12:15 AM

I'll just point out that I virtually never use it, but I thought it justified in this case. It's just that your strong atheism appears to be sleight of hand - disbelief in a God that essentially no one has ever believed in.

99Percent · 03-27-2002, 12:21 AM

For starters the Christian God is not a god, it is God. That is a pretty strong statement in itself. A statement that can be logically refutted, specially considering all what I have said. Satisfied?

tronvillain · 03-27-2002, 12:23 AM

No, it's a god - there are other logically possible gods.

tronvillain · 03-27-2002, 12:26 AM

Also, I'm not sure your definition of the Christian God is one anyone else is using.

99Percent · 03-27-2002, 12:29 AM

To disprove the Christian God it would have to be Thegod. Thats my whole point. Why are you so defensive?

99Percent · 03-27-2002, 12:32 AM

Anyway this whole idiotic spat resides on the definition of "god" - so what is it?

tronvillain · 03-27-2002, 12:41 AM

Something that completely realized the Christian concept of "God" would be the God, and disproofs of that concept obviously assume that it is. I have trouble believing that this is your point though, since it appears to have little to do with the rest of what you've said.

Now, your disproof appears to amount to something along the lines of "God is supernatural, but anything that exists is natural, therefore God does not exist." Is that right? It's just a very unimpressive proof.

99Percent · 03-27-2002, 12:54 AM

tronvillain: Now, your disproof appears to amount to something along the lines of "God is supernatural, but anything that exists is natural, therefore God does not exist." Is that right? It's just a very unimpressive proof.

Of course its unimpressive, because it is plain! If I were to say I can violate the rules of nature (I can defy gravity nya nya nya!) You would think of me as a god, until you realize that I am actually on an airplane. At that moment you would realize I am not a god after all. Ergooo (sorry AC) the conception of god resides precisely because it is a being that seemingly violates the (predetermined) rules of nature. But once you can reconfigure these rules you can accept the existence of this previously supernatural being, ie GOD, and then demolish it, (IT meaning GOD) to your understanding.

As to the Christian God (for those following this thread) he has ceased to be logical since the moment he "arose from the dead" since life means inevitable death, so "arising from the dead" is illogically inconsisent, and therefore impossible. This means that no, your "God" does not exist, SORRY!

tronvillain · 03-27-2002, 01:08 AM

No, it's unimpressive because an entity could create the universe, define physical laws, perform miracles and not "really" be God.

Also, do you listen to yourself? There is nothing logically impossible about rising from the dead, and in fact there is not even anything physically impossible about it. It could theoretically happen spontaneously, though the odds of it happening are infinitesimal.

99Percent · 03-27-2002, 01:16 AM

Ok, there is a very very slight posibilility of rising from the dead. Like what? One in a million, one in a billion, one a trillion. Let me see, now, how many people have died since the existence of humanity. How many have actually risen from the dead? ZERO NOW - REAL FUCKING ZERO.

Oh Jesus arose from the dead you say? Where is he? Ah only in your wishful minds. SORRY! It does not count count as evidence. Try again.

And you know, I am relieved. To live, with the idea of infinite living is frankly, self defeating, like a great movie that never ends.

It becomes boring.

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03-27-2002, 12:15 AM	#181
tronvillain Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,658	I'll just point out that I virtually never use it, but I thought it justified in this case. It's just that your strong atheism appears to be sleight of hand - disbelief in a God that essentially no one has ever believed in.

03-27-2002, 12:21 AM	#182
99Percent Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: my mind Posts: 5,996	For starters the Christian God is not a god, it is God. That is a pretty strong statement in itself. A statement that can be logically refutted, specially considering all what I have said. Satisfied?

03-27-2002, 12:23 AM	#183
tronvillain Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,658	No, it's a god - there are other logically possible gods.

03-27-2002, 12:26 AM	#184
tronvillain Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,658	Also, I'm not sure your definition of the Christian God is one anyone else is using.

03-27-2002, 12:29 AM	#185
99Percent Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: my mind Posts: 5,996	To disprove the Christian God it would have to be Thegod. Thats my whole point. Why are you so defensive?

03-27-2002, 12:32 AM	#186
99Percent Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: my mind Posts: 5,996	Anyway this whole idiotic spat resides on the definition of "god" - so what is it?

03-27-2002, 12:41 AM	#187
tronvillain Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,658	Something that completely realized the Christian concept of "God" would be the God, and disproofs of that concept obviously assume that it is. I have trouble believing that this is your point though, since it appears to have little to do with the rest of what you've said. Now, your disproof appears to amount to something along the lines of "God is supernatural, but anything that exists is natural, therefore God does not exist." Is that right? It's just a very unimpressive proof.

03-27-2002, 12:54 AM	#188
99Percent Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: my mind Posts: 5,996	tronvillain: Now, your disproof appears to amount to something along the lines of "God is supernatural, but anything that exists is natural, therefore God does not exist." Is that right? It's just a very unimpressive proof. Of course its unimpressive, because it is plain! If I were to say I can violate the rules of nature (I can defy gravity nya nya nya!) You would think of me as a god, until you realize that I am actually on an airplane. At that moment you would realize I am not a god after all. Ergooo (sorry AC) the conception of god resides precisely because it is a being that seemingly violates the (predetermined) rules of nature. But once you can reconfigure these rules you can accept the existence of this previously supernatural being, ie GOD, and then demolish it, (IT meaning GOD) to your understanding. As to the Christian God (for those following this thread) he has ceased to be logical since the moment he "arose from the dead" since life means inevitable death, so "arising from the dead" is illogically inconsisent, and therefore impossible. This means that no, your "God" does not exist, SORRY!

03-27-2002, 01:08 AM	#189
tronvillain Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,658	No, it's unimpressive because an entity could create the universe, define physical laws, perform miracles and not "really" be God. Also, do you listen to yourself? There is nothing logically impossible about rising from the dead, and in fact there is not even anything physically impossible about it. It could theoretically happen spontaneously, though the odds of it happening are infinitesimal.

03-27-2002, 01:16 AM	#190
99Percent Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: my mind Posts: 5,996	Ok, there is a very very slight posibilility of rising from the dead. Like what? One in a million, one in a billion, one a trillion. Let me see, now, how many people have died since the existence of humanity. How many have actually risen from the dead? ZERO NOW - REAL FUCKING ZERO. Oh Jesus arose from the dead you say? Where is he? Ah only in your wishful minds. SORRY! It does not count count as evidence. Try again. And you know, I am relieved. To live, with the idea of infinite living is frankly, self defeating, like a great movie that never ends. It becomes boring.

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