id.s

If I wasn't painting my kitchen now why I'd..any way, I'll get back to you .Thanks for the extra info. My approach will be based on your Race/ sex idea and analogy of women having to think more like men. I hope we get interesting. I'd like to hear back from catalyst too. He can defend his stand well enough.

catalyst

Since you have done little besides insult me and call me a liar, I see no need to speak with you further.

If you wish to discuss things in a rational manner, feel free to contact me.

id.s

But I do find some things we do as men demeaning to women, so maybe now you know what its like to be a second class citizen, like women are as we continue to be men. Sorry, but if I objectify you and you feel mistreated then I have succeeded in maybe eliciting a small amount of empathy from you)how can he say those things about me). Surely you can see that mere words as well as leers and catcalls can be an example of what objectifying can do. If you are coloured, then what I have to say about critical race theories may help you to understand more than you bargained for. And ihiuvme, I haven't forgotten. I'm usually up late after the nicer half goes to bed, so I'll be in touch.

catalyst

Actually, I would like to make a couple of points.

1. You assumed I was white, and when I stated I was not, which is the case, you called me a liar. Twice.
2. You assumed that I come from a priveleged class, when I do not. (this is what I gather from your ranting).
3. You refer to normal sexual urges as perverted.
4. You still presume to tell me how I am thinking, since I am a man.

You said:

I do not believe that a woman is defined by her appearance, any more than she is defined by any other single aspect of her self. There are some personality traits I find attractive, such as a sense of humor, and there are others I find appalling, like insecurity, irrationality, hypocrisy, and people who rant on with the previous three traits in response to a knee jerk reaction to a post on the internet. Does this mean I would define the person posting by their inane rambling? No, although, when it is the only thing I have to go on, it will determine whether or not I consider their words/thoughts/ideals to hold any particular worth.

When I find something attractive physically about a woman (being a hetrosexual male, this tends to occur from time to time, damn that whole biology thing), it means simply that I find something physically attractive. I may speak to the person, I may not. The basis of how I view them as a person can only occur after I get to know them as a person. This requires that I not make snap judgements, and actually consider the fact that other people may not think as I do, feel as I do, react as I do, etc. In short, to view them as a person I must *learn* each and every individual, instead of just lumping them all into a group.

A feat which you seem to enjoy, particularly when it is men, and then will turn around and berate others when they are doing no such thing.

catalyst

Why would you assume that I do not understand. All my life I have been a minority, both for my ethnicity, as well as the fact that no member of my family has ever been christian, and I have lived my entire life in the US. Most of my childhood being spent in some places where I was a distinct minority (as in the only one). Once again, you are committing a gross generalization.

Trust me, what your comments make me feel was certainly not empathy. They made me judge you by what you wrote, and the judgement was less than favorable.

Oddly enough, the vast majority of my friends at work are female, so evidently I must have a bit more self-control than most of the modern-day neanderthals you seem to think men are.

Um, no. If you are interested in what your words accomplished, see above. It takes far more than an internet post to affect my life in any meaningful way.

id.s

This coming from a guy whose state threw out deciding black votes that could have changed an election. Tell me ,what does Thomas do? Insignifigant trivialized objectified co-option, run and hide. You won't mind the stats that I throw out then about race /sex and objectifying women and how each relates to the other. I've found that this site has a white majority bias, so welcome catalyst. I have some interesting data on this question written by black authors like Derrick A. Bell jr. What do you know about the black/white binary paradigm of race?

catalyst

Nice to know that I have a white bias, being a minority.

By the way, I not only come from a matriarchal society, I bear my mother's last name, not my father's.

Care to go on?

Throw out whatever statistics you wish. When they actually represent my conduct or anything else that reflects *my* being a person, instead of being objectified and categorized, I will be sure and let you know.

You cannot play the race card with me, so stop trying. I know what it is like to wind up in the emergency room with the chain that is wrapped around my ribcage being the only thing holding said ribcage together, all for committing the sin of being the wrong minority, and I could go on here as well, however, I am sure you will ignore any relevant experience that I may have, just like you ignore every other point made by others in this thread, or questions put to you.

Guess what, yet another generalization fails, as I was not a resident of Florida at the time of the election. Oops. And while I am at it, this is relevant to the fact that as a heterosexual male I find women attractive in what way?

If you cannot stick to the OP of the thread, perhaps you should start another.

id.s

[QUOTE]Originally posted by catalyst
[ ID.s said-quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, but if I objectify you and you feel mistreated then I have succeeded in maybe eliciting a small amount of empathy from you
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Trust me, what your comments make me feel was certainly not empathy. They made me judge you by what you wrote, and the judgement was less than favorable.
.................................................. ..............................
So you admit that when I said those comments, at that time, you were judgmental and objectified me. Good, hope you felt angry too. With that out of the way maybe we can discuss things knowing we have boundaries. All I said was that to empathise with women we have to experience that kind of discrimination as well. Talking to you about discrimination is a bit aloof of me as you know quite well the history of degradation of a human being.
You did say-

"Um, no. If you are interested in what your words accomplished, see above. It takes far more than an internet post to affect my life in any meaningful way."

-so don't mind what I say and I'll keep it civil. Remember, freedom of speech could be part of the problem.

Stiletto One

You know, id.s is falling (rather hard) right into the category of 'troll'. But anyway!

Note the thread question. We are asking what the most attractive part of a woman's BODY is. Several people have already noted that they consider a woman's beauty based on her personality, and we've collectively had to keep said people from derailing the thread. We're not 'objectifying' women; we're picking out the merits of various externally visible body parts. It's not meant to be a serious philosophical thread about finding the meaning of beauty.

Asshat.

Also, how does living in a state with a whack government have any bearing on a person's character? I live in North Carolina. Does that automatically make me a redneck?

(Hint for the last question: I'm Chinese, and I'm from New York City. Bite me.)

ju'iblex

I think this whole statistical race shite, because it really is shite, would be be demonstrated by an example.

id.s I find women gorgeous, i love cleavage, i love their lips, their eyes and their shoulders.

From this information, and without referring to my profile, please tell me

my race
my age
in which cultural area in Sydney i currently live
my political persuasion

I think that should be enough. I'll let you know if you're right.