St. Robert

HelenSL,

I, too, had been skeptical of faith healing until I witnessed it first hand. Jesus is healing people today just as He did 2000 years ago. Most importantly, he's healing people from the inside out.

Faith in God should not be simply believing that He (God) can heal you, but that He wants to heal you and that He will heal you. We should expect that God desires to do the miraculous in our lives. Most of the time, we don't trust God for the everyday let alone the miraculous. That lack of faith is on us.

Suffering is part of being born into a lost world. God himself (Jesus) faced some of the worst suffering man has invented by being crucified. How we respond to the suffering in this world is what is significant, because the suffering will come.

There are many reasons for depression, but most notably for me was a lack of feeling loved and accepted as I was. Because I didn't trust God, I denied myself the very thing that I really wanted and needed more than anything - a relationship with Him. Three years ago, I suffered from depression because I drank heavily. I was using alcohol to fill the void in my life that only God could fill. Although I was resistant to God changing my life, He delivered me from a dependence on alcohol and gave me joy in my life. I shifted my dependence on myself and alcohol to Jesus.

More than anything, we desire relationship with others. We want to be accepted and loved just as we are. According to Jesus, God does accept us as we are and wants to heal us by building relationship with Him through Jesus. People get healed differently by God, because He builds relationship with us on an individual basis.

On a practical note, perhaps you could seek counsel from a solid Christian therapist. Psychiatrists tend to over medicate and leave God out of the healing process. Just some friendly advice and my personal opinion. Not trying to tell you what to do or how to run your life.

"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened (clinically depressed), and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." - Jesus Christ (Matthew 11:28-30)

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: St. Robert ]</p>

ManM

Panta Pei,
While I have studied Asian philosophy, I am pulling my current material straight from Christian sources.

Evagrios the Solitary, in 'On Prayer':
Be on your guard against the tricks of the demons. While you are praying purely and calmly, sometimes they suddenly bring before you some strange and alien form, making you imagine in your conceit that the Deity is there. They are trying to persuade you that the object suddenly disclosed to you is the Deity, whereas the Deity does not possess quantity and form.
("Philokalia (Vol. 1)", p. 63, text 68) Emphasis mine.

and...

St. Hesychios the Priest, in 'On Watchfulness and Holiness':
Because every thought enters the heart in the form of a mental image of some sensible object, the blessed light of the Divinity will illumine the heart only when the heart is completely empty of everything and so free from all form. Indeed, this light reveals itself to the pure intellect in the measure to which the intellect is purged of all concepts.
("Philokalia (Vol. 1)", p. 177, text 89)

It's a far cry from the scholastic theology of the Catholics or the biblical interpretation of the Protestants, but it is Christian nonetheless.

HelenM

In my reading, it seemed to me that the extremely mystical of all religions more or less say the same thing...fwiw

I daresay they are seen as heretics by many who hold more traditional beliefs, in each religion.

love
Helen

HelenM

Originally posted by St. Robert:

HelenSL,

I, too, had been skeptical of faith healing until I witnessed it first hand.

Were you healed, or someone else? What were you/they healed of, if you don't mind me asking?

Jesus is healing people today just as He did 2000 years ago. Most importantly, he's healing people from the inside out.

I would agree that some people do seem to find significant emotional healing through fait in God/Jesus/Christianity/the church/other Christians.

Faith in God should not be simply believing that He (God) can heal you, but that He wants to heal you and that He will heal you.

Yeah but it's up to Him. He's in charge and He might not want to heal me

Having seen Christians who are as faith-filled and wonderfully sweet people as anyone I ever knew, die of cancer and AIDs, I am unwilling to do them the disservice of thinking that it must be their fault they weren't healed, because God always wants to heal people

We should expect that God desires to do the miraculous in our lives. Most of the time, we don't trust God for the everyday let alone the miraculous. That lack of faith is on us.

Oh, so it was their fault then? Those two people lacked faith and that's why God didn't heal them?

Suffering is part of being born into a lost world. God himself (Jesus) faced some of the worst suffering man has invented by being crucified. How we respond to the suffering in this world is what is significant, because the suffering will come.

It will come? Then how do you reconcile that with God always wants to heal me, thus taking it away?

Does He want me to suffer or does He want to heal me?

And if the answer is 'one of those choices' then how do I know which? How can I know to expect Him to heal me?

There are many reasons for depression, but most notably for me was a lack of feeling loved and accepted as I was.

That certainly doesn't help

But were you clinically depressed? Did you get diagnosed as such?

I am diagnosed Bipolar.

Because I didn't trust God, I denied myself the very thing that I really wanted and needed more than anything - a relationship with Him. Three years ago, I suffered from depression because I drank heavily. I was using alcohol to fill the void in my life that only God could fill. Although I was resistant to God changing my life, He delivered me from a dependence on alcohol and gave me joy in my life. I shifted my dependence on myself and alcohol to Jesus.

I'm glad through faith in Jesus you were set free from alcoholism and the level of depression that you were struggling with.

More than anything, we desire relationship with others. We want to be accepted and loved just as we are.

Well, I know that's important to me. Possibly there are some people out there who aren't so people-oriented. I don't want to assume everyone is just like me...

According to Jesus, God does accept us as we are and wants to heal us by building relationship with Him through Jesus. People get healed differently by God, because He builds relationship with us on an individual basis.

Well, ok, but has He promised to change my inherited brain chemistry?

On a practical note, perhaps you could seek counsel from a solid Christian therapist. Psychiatrists tend to over medicate and leave God out of the healing process. Just some friendly advice and my personal opinion. Not trying to tell you what to do or how to run your life.

I appreciate that. Actually I have a Christian therapist (professionally qualified) . When my last one moved out of state a few months ago I wondered whether I was happy going to a Christian but I decided the solution was to make it clear to him he'd better not tell me my problems were due to lack of faith or not being a submissive enough wife. So far he hasn't even tried that so that's ok

"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened (clinically depressed)

&lt;AHEM&gt; that's your interpretation...burdened doesn't necessarily mean 'sick' though...imo...

, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." - Jesus Christ (Matthew 11:28-30)

It's a very comforting verse - I agree

love
Helen

Panta Pei

You know, after years and years of conversing with those submitting to christianic possession, I still keep forgetting that it is permissable for them to take buybull verses out of context to assert that some meaningful compassion can be found within the holey pages in the face of it's overall brutality, inconsistency and injustice.

That, and they really must believe that christianity is the only valid dogma that may contain mystical elements, such as meditation, when it is just another example of cultural plagiarism from much more ancient, romantic and poetic theologies.

Pretend in whatever inviso-friends all you want, any cures you ultimately experience you have simply generated within your mind.

In this regard, you are your own personal jesus krishna.

Just don't pull another 'suffer not a...' on us ignorant heathens. We've learned a few tricks from history and may just turn you into a newt.

Captain Pedantic

The trouble is, so many people don't really understand that depression is not "just feeling a bit miserable" but is so much more debilitating than that. Worse, some people, even after being told the facts, would prefer to believe what the voices in their head tell them.

As for Christianity, there are many different strands of Christianity. I believe that the sort of Christianity which encourages demonic exorcisms and beating your wife/children for being "unclean/disobedient" would probably make the average soft jessies amongs us (ie, anyone with compassion and a mind of their own besides) feel worse. But a religion which helps people establish a sense of community and gives them something to adhere to might help them - although, as I say, depression is a physical thing so there would need to be medical intervention.

There are some branches of Christianity which believe that all illnesses are the result of demonic possession. There are some branches which believe that praying to God will cure an illness (these are the people that get in the papers when their kids die of some easily-treated infection). And there are some branches of Christianity which hold that the earth is flat and unnmoving, and the sun travels round the earth. It doesn't really do to lump all strands of the religion together - even if they are all nuts

Perchance

Just a question here (about the branches of Christianity that feel medicine is going against God's will...) Why isn't prayer to be healed going against God's will? If a religion or person feels it's God's will for someone to die, then why pray?

This has always puzzled me. If medicine is interfering in a disease that God wants to happen, then isn't prayer doing the same thing (and trying to compel God besides?)

I don't believe in it, but it seems an interesting paradox.

-Perchance.

Panta Pei

"It doesn't really do to lump all strands of the religion together - even if they are all nuts "

ROFLMFAO <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

Mageth

St. Robert

HelenSL,

Why wouldn't God want to heal you?

God does not want you to suffer. He does want to heal you. From God's perspective, spiritual health is more valuable than physical health. On an eternal spectrum, what good would it do a person to be healthy in the body and be unhealthy in the spirit?

For the Christian, a bodily death is actually the best cure for a destructive illness like cancer or AIDS. If Christians believe that they receive a new body after they die, why wouldn't they prefer that God heal them of their terminal illness by allowing them to die? Death becomes the answer to the Christian's prayer for healing.

My wife was also diagnosed with bipolar disorder several years ago. She would credit Jesus for healing her by faith.

Perhaps a better way to describe the 'weary and burdened' is 'all who seek healing'.

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: St. Robert ]</p>