ex-preacher

SOMMS,

What would it take for you to believe that Mohammed ascended into heaven and returned to earth?

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Technos,
This makes sense...IF certain events happen THEN you would believe.


What if those same events (that would make you believe) had already really happened?


Satan Oscilliate My Metallic Sonatas

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

ex-preacher,

Not true. Ask everyone of them:
-Who God is.
-Who Jesus is.
-Who created the universe.
-Who created man.
-If we sin.
-If sin seperates us from God.
-How much God loves the world.
-Who makes redemption with God possible.
-If Jesus is will return.

Excluding the extremists/cults...their answers will be the same.


This is the story of the Bible.


Don't mistake human opinion/interpretation for theological doctrine.


Thoughts and comments welcomed,

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas ]</p>

HRG

"Virtually every point" certainly was an exaggeration. But you might ask them about:

- the primacy of the pope, including his infallibility when speaking ex cathedra
- which books the bible consists of
- purgatory
- transsubstantiation
- the number of sacraments
- whether there are there different "ranks" of sin
- faith vs. works
To your questions; but not to mine.

Regards,
HRG.

TollHouse

Now would be a good time to read the rest of Techno's post, dummy:

In case you haven't noticed: this is where you will continually fail to sway any of us. It doesn't matter how many "what if's" you go on and on about. The fact of the matter is that you can no way provee that any of the fancy-free tales of miracles decribed in the Bible actually ocurred.

Your belief is based on faith. Not proof. Faith.
We want proof. Not bullshit stories like every other goddamn religion know to man. Proof.

Get used to it.

Philosoft

Unanswerable, at least the answer you get will be meaningless. There is no coherent definition of a thing called 'God.' All answers will necessarily be different because there is no way to personally convey a mental concept of a thing which has not been defined. A better question: "What do you see in your head when I say the word 'God'?"

If Jesus is defined as 'God,' see above.

This presumes 'God' has been defined.

See above.

Only trivially so without a coherent definition of 'God.'

Even theological doctrine assumes that 'God' has been already defined .

ex-preacher

Since there are around 33,800 Christian denominations at last count, I don't think I'll have time to ask them all.

Obviously you have tried to pick questions which are fairly non-controversial in orthodox circles. You left out some extremely important questions of doctrine (such as the means of salvation, pacifism, and the inerrancy of the Bible) for which there is no consensus. Even with your list, though, I will attempt to identify critical differences among various groups claiming to have the ultimate truth. Remember, the verse you quoted said that the Holy Spirit would teach Jesus' followers "all things."

<strong> Tell us, SOMMS, the answer. The nature of God has been an ongoing debate for thousands of years. One of the raging debates in evangelical circles is over the "openness" of God - does he ever change his mind? The early church wrestled mightily over the exact identity of God - three in one or not?

<strong> Once again, this was the subject of a lively debate for the first few hundred years of Christianity. Have you heard of the Ebionites, Gnostics, Docetists and Arians? Perhaps not, since their sides lost and they were banished from the Catholic church. Among Christians today there are disagreements over Jesus' nature. There are and have been many disagreements over his teachings: did exactly did he teach about absolute pacifism, poverty, self-mutilation, celibacy, divorce, the death penalty, women, capital punishment, slavery, drinking, and dozens of other matters?

<strong> I didn't realize these were doctrinal issues. You're really reaching, aren't you?


<strong> Once again, very simple, superficial items. Scratch a little below the surface and you'll uncover a huge iceburg of controversy.

<strong> The disputing definitions of "world" have even made this simple item controversial. Christians would also differ over whether that love is consistent with eternal torture.

<strong> The tough question is how.


<strong> I know Christians who claim that he has returned. I can hardly think of a more divisive question than the nature of end times. Do you think all Christians agree on the "rapture"?

<strong> Let me guess who gets to decide which groups are extremists/cults. Wasn't Jesus an extremist?


<strong> The medicine is the same, but the prescriptions keep changing.


<strong> Please enlighten us on the exact distinction between opinion and doctrine. Then we can finally unite the Pope, Jerry Falwell, Bishop Spong, and Marcus Borg.

Are you really going to try to argue that the Holy Spirit has successfully guided Jesus' followers into all truth?

You can always explain away that verse the way they do in the Church of Christ - Jesus made that promise only to his apostles. Of course, that opens a whole other can of worms. Shall we?

[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: ex-preacher ]</p>

HRG

What if Krishna had already really participated in the Ramayana battle ?

HRG.

Technos

You kind of lost me when you said that people today are more educated but not smarter. We know more today, true, but we also apply our knowledge more, which I feel can be contributed to capitalism among other things. So what do you think it means to be "smart" I must ask? If you're referring to problem solving skills, then for the most part we have better problem solving skills today, if you're speaking of knowledge, we know more today, so how are we not smarter than people 2000 years ago? Maybe when you say "we" you are speaking of a few groups of people and not humanity as a whole, or maybe when I say we I'm speaking of scientist and enlightened men, after all I can see the validity of your point if you're speaking of the clueless mobs that trip each other after the next new fad.

Technos

How would I know that they had happened?