Odemus

Is it not possible to thrive with religion? If not could you please demonstrate that a secular life is preferable to a religious one?

HelenM

I don't know of any Christians who believes in not doing things now because we'll be able to do them in heaven. I'm not sure where you got that idea from. If it's a sin now it's always going to be a sin; if it's allowable in heaven why not now?

But maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Helen

Sabine Grant

Hello pz : do you also include faith in your statement? as a matter of personal choice, one can thrive without faith. However other individuals thrive thru their faith. I think it is prudent to not generalize to all human beings one's personal experience.

Family Man

Helen, I agree with you on this, but I don't think my position is just because I'm an atheist. Basically, I'd like to raise two points:

1) No where, outside of religion, are people encouraged to believe in things that they can't understand or explain. I can't explain psychics, so should I spend $3.99 a minute to gain their insights? And if not, why should I spend far more time and money accepting a Christian explanation that can not be analyzed and explained?

2) The basic appeal of Christianity is to one's selfishness -- believe in this and you'll get eternal life as God's free gift. It's a con man's dream. Why should I trust an unanalyzable message that is designed to appeal to my worst self-interest?

post-it

Let's put it to the test then. What modern creed which pertains to the treatment of others is any greater than "Treat others as you would like to be treated". It would seem that a great many of our laws as well as social behaviors can be said to encompass this early creed.

SharonDee

Because I'm basically stupid, it took works of fiction to make me comprehend just how horrible it would be to live on and on and on and on...

Anne Rice's early Vampire Chronicles gave me my first glimpse into how bad it could be. (Her later installments gave me my first glimpses of how bad her writing could be. But I digress.)

Duncan Idaho was another fictional character that I felt sorry for. Oh sure, it was great for the reader to know that this hero would return... but poor him!

So yeah... living forever sounds like a bummer, but (agreeing with someone up-thread) being allowed to live until you get bored would be great.

post-it

You are presupposing that eternal life would be limited in experience and limited in awareness along with other human limitations. It would be impossible for one to understand whether boredom would exist for at spiritual being or not. Certainly the life for a vampire would become dull since the earth and its contents are limited; a prison as such.

post-it

... LOVE comes to mind. My kid come to mind. My job follows a close 3rd.


I think the eternal life is just a free bonus. To be a Christian is to want to have a certain moral code with the understanding that happiness in our existing life is the reward. It's nothing different than for the atheist. You have adopted a certain moral code with the same understanding of its rewards. As an atheist, you know you may not have eternal life or you might, but it isn't dependent on your existing life. There is such a small difference between the two of us.

cricket

For me, it's not that living for all eternity is a dreadful idea... it's that the concept is preposterous.

How do you imagine your life trillions of years from now, Post-it?

cricket

I may have an eternal life? I don't think so. This eternal life that won't happen -- it isn't dependent on my existing life?

If it doesn't exist then indeed it isn't dependent. But what are you saying?