Radorth

I only take issue with Atheist Automatons who want minority rule, in effect. If we can agree that the Supreme Court has kept a pretty healthy balance, than we ARE on the same side, but I don't think the AA's are happy with the way things are. I think I do have something to fear from some secularists, if they advocate teaching secular humanist and evolutionist theories to kids as if that would cure the world's ills.

And while I've not shown, nor really cared to show, that America is a "Christian" nation, I have shown the Founders rightly feared a religion-free society and what they thought of Jesus himself, wise souls.

Rad

Yellum Notnef

Tsk tisk Radorth! You shouldn`t be telling fibs so close to your saviors birthday.

You keep saying that Jesus loves ME,but will he still love YOU if he comes here and reads about all your lying and unmerited victory dances?

[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: Fenton Mulley ]</p>

Butters

As far as humanist theories, why not. We gave christianity 2000 years, the only reason life has gotten any better is because it's grip has loosened, thanks in part to the founders. But I forget, you want YOUR religion taught in school. Hell, they can't teach kids to read today, and you want them to teach religion!

As far as evolution goes, I see no conflict between religion and the teaching of facts, and since all the facts of Geography, palentology, astronomy, biology etc. support the theory of evolution, it would be stupid to teach some theory based on a book of myths, that flatly contraticts the facts. As soon as you find a theory that explains the world better than evolution, please let us know.

dangin

'After Washington's death, Dr. Abercrombie, a friend of his, replied to a Dr. Wilson, who had interrogated him about Washington's religion replied, "Sir, Washington was a Deist." '

Still waiting on the Jesus references there Rad man. Found any yet?

[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: dangin ]</p>

Radorth

So "all those people" was just nonsense right? But I guess if you need him to be a "deist" that bad, go ahead. Too bad the definition changes hourly, or we might have had an intelligent discussion about Washington's esoteric beliefs.

Rad

dangin

Still waiting on the jesus references.

And I don't think anyone's definition of deist matters at all. You could call me a deist, or a christian, or a buddhist, doesn't make it true. I am an atheist, my own definition being the only one that matters.

I think it would be more telling to hear a definition of "what is a christian". Because if the actions and writings of many of the founders fits in with your defintion of "christian" I don't know if your church will let you back in.

Radorth

But you don't teach it as a theory, nor do you point out the self-contradictions in it which nobody but a Phd biologist could begin to reconcile. (Now evolutionsists are saying an animal crawled INTO the water, not out of it. LOL!) It is effectively an "origins" teaching with modern evidence Darwin said would be fatal to it, and a simplistic belief system Hitler and Stalin used to justify their genocidal rampages.

Nah I don't care if you teach "my" religion in schools. Very few people know what nascent Christianity is about anyway, and they would teach it as though it were just another religion, making it virtually powerless. I do hope when the AA's and "humanists" take over, they still allow preaching in public parks so gang members have options. I doubt they will, as they will see a violation of the "wall" the founders would have laughed at.

Time to close this thread I guess, as the AA's are grasping at various straws, hoping to convince a yawning choir there really were 3 or 4 deists helping out at the convention.

Say, anybody interested in Madison's report of why the Christians voted against a bill to use public funds to support Christian churches?

No? Hey, just trying to help you get some sleep.

Rad

[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: Radorth ]</p>

Toto

This makes no sense. Communion is the central Christian rite. A person who goes to church but does not take communion is telling you something, even if you are too thick to understand.

I think you will find it is the secular sources that describe Washington as enigmatic and reserved as far as religion, and most probably a Deist. You seem to need him to be a Christian.

</strong>

Could you please supply the URL for this website and the quote?

Toto

Rad (and others): I posted a link in <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=59&t=000909" target="_blank">this thread</a> that I hoped you and others would look at. (Unfortunately it is the transcript of an address, so the discussion is condensed and does not have footnotes to sources.)

It expresses the point of view that the founders established the ideal of separation of church and state - but for the national government only - and then made various compromises that were not in accord with that ideal for their own political purposes. You might try that idea on for size.

dangin

I read it. Bobbie's such a little fire brand. I like her a lot though. Thanks for posting it.