Starboy

LDC:

The question is not what is the logic of selfishness or altruism. The question should be what purpose do they serve. The only way to understand that it to realize that you are not a disembodied conciousness but a flesh and blood animal living in a world teaming with life that has been adapting to the world and all of life for the last four billion years.

Starboy

Oxymoron

Because it uniquely distinguishes us from all other living species and thus has allowed us to transform the world in a multitude of amazing ways, including being able to have this discussion?

Yes, and I suppose that culture of "believe what you like" can be used by folk to justify racism, sexism or any other arbitrary set of irrational hatreds to themselves.

Shadowy Man

ImGod:

This sentiment nearly perfectly describes my experience teaching physics to engineering students.

ImGod

That concept sunk in during my college Calculus 102 course. I wasn’t doing very well in the class and went to my older brother for help. After a couple of detailed questions, he told me to stop trying to understand it and just work the problems. His quote was, “They don’t give essay tests in calculus. If you can solve the problems you’ll pass.” I worked all the homework problems and several that weren’t assigned and learned to recognize certain types of problems and was very familiar with their solutions. I got a 97% on my next test. That’s when I started to learn how to study and how to read the instructors. My GPA went from 3.0 to 3.7 by the time I graduated. My last three semesters were my 4.0 semesters.

This is one of the reasons I look for intelligence in the people I interview by both GPA and the questions I ask. If you can learn the right study tricks and how to read the typical professor you can get good grades or pass proficiency tests.

Shadowy Man

ImGod:

But what I found from the engineering students I taught, as well as those with whom I studied while taking physics in college (I was a physics major), is that they were not inclined to actually learn the physics.

I recall one incident in particular while I was studying with a friend. We were working on problems and she asked me how I knew how to solve one of the problems. I said "it's just like the other ones". I was able to recognize the physics that was going on, and even though each problem had a different setup and we were asked to solve for different quantities, I could recognize the underlying physics, because I understood the physics.

When I was teaching physics, I had one mechanical engineering student, who consistently got some of the highest grades in the class, get the correct numerical answer to a problem, but did the physics incorrectly. I gave him a very low score on the problem. He argued with me on it, claiming that he got the correct answer. I tried to explain to him that what was important was understanding the physics involved, and that he just got lucky that the number turned out to be correct. Had any of his numbers been off by even a little bit it is possible that he could have been way off (I don't remember specifically the problem) - this is not the kind of attitude I want people to have when say building bridges or something - "Well, my calculations for the weight allowance give 10 tons, but I'm not sure I did the physics correct."

I don't blame the students too much (only the physics majors were really interested in learning the physics) because I'm sure most of them knew very little about what they were studying in general (especially since most of my students claimed to be biomedical engineering majors) and didn't have the perspective to see what a foundation physics really is for most, if not all, scientific fields of study.

Certainly when I was studying though, the engineering students helped me get really high grades by bringing down the curve.

[ November 08, 2002: Message edited by: Shadowy Man ]</p>

ImGod

Maybe I'm not as dumb as I think. But, then again, I've always been the type of enginenerd on the outside looking in.

I have to agree that I focused more on the physics concepts I needed to apply to my statics, kinematics, and dynamics courses. Wow, that just brought back some weird flashbacks of geekdom. I took most of those courses about 15 years ago.

My roommate was a physics major and there was a big difference in what he studied past the 200 level where I stopped. I did work in the physics department office for two years, but the typing and photocoping didn't add much to my physics knowledge.

Ronin

From Living Dead Chipmunk:

Ronin, if you're not going to participate civilly, please don't incite others. This thread is relatively polite. Your insults aren't contributing to anyone's enlightnment, just their blood pressure. If you don't believe someone's point is valid, please inform the rest of us as to your thought process rather than simply engaging in blatant ad homeniems.

Fine ~ there are no God(s)ess(es) ~ pretending that there are is not rational.

I can imagine why HD and Kass have such a reactive attitude if you're par for the course on these boards.

I am my own person ~ you will find others on this board with more and/or less patience when encountering cult members.

It is your job to pick and choose those you favor or disfavor in order to respond accordingly depending upon your own demeanor.

Do not hold an entire board responsible for the occasional post you may find issue with.

I have encountered HD in many other threads and have personally grown weary of his "you poor, sterile rationalists" uselessness and pointed out to him a simple alternative ~ just as I have done before.

Kassiana apparently was offended by this and reacted offensively to me.

I note that you only recognized my 'uncivilized' behavior, which speaks volumes for your mindset.

Perhaps you should take your own advice ~ "You leave me alone, I leave you alone."

Should you fail to follow this sage advice, I recommend you reach me via PM or email and we can hash it out.

[ November 09, 2002: Message edited by: Ronin ]</p>

lpetrich

What a stupid pissing contest.

Ronin

What a stupid pissing contest.

You're right, of course.

I apologize, yet again, for setting it off.

Live and learn ~ and learn ~ and learn...

HelenM

It's the people who think they've learned everything already that I worry about...