Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Amen-Moses · 03-05-2003, 01:51 AM

Originally posted by leonarde
Well, considering that bin Laden was the head of one of the biggest terrorist organizations in existence, headquartered in Afghanistan, and was simultaneously in tight with the head of the Taliban, there was no "evidence" really necessary: the Taliban knew better than anyone that al Qaeda was behind the attacks ..

How? If we couldn't provide any evidence what makes you think they could find their own evidence?

and merely refused to give up bin Laden because he was, and for a long time, in cahoots with the Taliban.

Exactly, in the same way that the US refused to extradite US citizens that were IRA members or were funding the IRA. Even when provided with evidence they refused to extradite them, hypocrite much?

But for the people of Afghanistan it worked out better that way anyway: they were soon free of the Taliban's draconian regime.

You should really check up on what has replaced it, very little has changed according to the Washington Post!

Maybe the UK should have bombed the fuck out of the US to get at the terrorists that the US government refused to extradite, it may even have resulted in the US having a better government after all it would be hard to have a worse one than at present!

Amen-Moses

leonarde · 03-05-2003, 07:48 AM

Amen-Moses,
We today know via many of bin Laden's video tapes, via arrests that were made in Afghanistan, via the identities of the suicide bomber team members that these people (9-11) were al Qaeda people. We have known that for over a year and a half. Are you really so naive as to believe that the Taliban didn't realize that there were terrorist training camps being run by bin Laden in their country??? His unwholesome activities were why bin Laden was unwelcome, first in Saudi Arabia, then in Sudan. IOW he was 'pushed out' of those other countries. The "rap" against bin Laden going back years was that he was a freedom fighter/terrorist (take your pick of a label). To say that the Taliban 'didn't know' or 'didn't have any evidence' is like saying that Abbott didn't know what Costello was up to. And when given chances to condemn the attacks, all he could give was a smirk.

Quote:

But for the people of Afghanistan it worked out better that way anyway: they were soon free of the Taliban's draconian regime.
------------------------------------------------
You should really check up on what has replaced it, very little has changed according to the Washington Post!

------------------------------------------------
Since they suffered something like a quarter century of unrelenting war, things aren't going to be rosey any time soon. But compared to the fanatical theocracy that the Taliban brought, it would be difficult to have a worse form of government: many aspects (especially for women/girls) should already be better. (Somehow even the Washington Post must know that; could you give a citation?)

Quote:

Maybe the UK should have bombed the fuck out of the US to get at the terrorists that the US government refused to extradite, it may even have resulted in the US having a better government after all it would be hard to have a worse one
than at present!

Uh, in what way? No, never mind: you hate Bush too so you blame his Administration for things it had nothing to do with (like IRA terrorists who sought refuge here years and decades ago).

leonarde · 03-05-2003, 08:00 AM

Here's what Afghan President Karzai had to say about his country's condition:

Quote:

Karzai said that in the past year 2 million refugees have returned to Afghanistan and 3 million children are now going to school.

Better on balance

"We have replaced the old currency. We have a better economy. We have more people getting jobs," he said.

"Yes, we have problems. We have a bad administration. We cannot collect national
revenues. We don't have a full security force. We still have skirmishes here and there with the terrorists.

"But to take things on balance, Afghanistan is doing much better than it was last year."

He said 300 women participated last June in the Loya Jirga, the traditional Afghan tribal council, and that Afghanistan also has a free press.

"There are over a hundred newspapers printed in Kabul on a weekly and daily and monthly basis. There are so many radio stations coming up in Afghanistan. It's a very different picture," he said.

The United States also intends to help with irrigation projects. Last year, the
emphasis was on reconstructing highways and roads, he said.

Above from:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapc...zai/index.html

Autonemesis · 03-05-2003, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Superbad
...is particularly well designed and easy to read.

I. Can. Read.

Mr. Superbad · 03-05-2003, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kind Bud
I. Can. Read.

Wow. Cool. It's. like. We're. Soulmates. Or. Something.

Loren Pechtel · 03-05-2003, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ImGod
I think escaping with your life (most likely with a large amount of money) while effectively neutering Bush and the US foreign policy would be a benefit. Especially when compared to dying.

He's played us for fools for 12 years. Why should he think he can't now? If it comes down to shooting he can threaten Israel with WMD like he did last time.

Evangelion · 03-05-2003, 01:52 PM

OK, I'm curious.

Afghanistan gets all of this:

Quote:

Strengthening Governance

Restoring Media

Rehabilitating Agriculture

Restoring Infrastructure

Empowering Women

Enhancing Education

Improving Health

Growing the Economy

How soon can the average American expect to see these in his own country?

I guess it's still on the backburner, eh...?

Evangelion · 03-05-2003, 01:54 PM

Loren -

Quote:

He's played us for fools for 12 years. Why should he think he can't now?

You know, that's an excellent point. Why indeed?

Same country, same fools.

Even the same name! (Bush.)

Evangelion · 03-05-2003, 02:08 PM

By jingo! In the fine old American tradition of advertising testimonials, the US has even set up a Web page full of "before" and "after" photos! (See here.)

Yes, you too can benefit from the near-destruction of your entire country and the subsequent descent into chaos, while tribal chiefs fight amongst themselves for your flour ration and your adolescent daughter!

Apparently the Afghans had a "new for old" policy in their "Country-got-bombed-to-smithereens-by-Western-Imperialists-who-also-wiped-out-a-civilian-wedding-and-a-bunch-of-Canadian-troops" insurance.

Smart move.

Evangelion · 03-05-2003, 02:13 PM

OK, this is USAID page is just too funny.

I would love to see people making up new captions for the photos, just like they did with the "If you have set yourself on fire, do not run" thread.

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03-05-2003, 01:51 AM	#41
Amen-Moses Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Portsmouth, England Posts: 4,652	Originally posted by leonarde Well, considering that bin Laden was the head of one of the biggest terrorist organizations in existence, headquartered in Afghanistan, and was simultaneously in tight with the head of the Taliban, there was no "evidence" really necessary: the Taliban knew better than anyone that al Qaeda was behind the attacks .. How? If we couldn't provide any evidence what makes you think they could find their own evidence? and merely refused to give up bin Laden because he was, and for a long time, in cahoots with the Taliban. Exactly, in the same way that the US refused to extradite US citizens that were IRA members or were funding the IRA. Even when provided with evidence they refused to extradite them, hypocrite much? But for the people of Afghanistan it worked out better that way anyway: they were soon free of the Taliban's draconian regime. You should really check up on what has replaced it, very little has changed according to the Washington Post! Maybe the UK should have bombed the fuck out of the US to get at the terrorists that the US government refused to extradite, it may even have resulted in the US having a better government after all it would be hard to have a worse one than at present! Amen-Moses

03-05-2003, 02:08 PM	#49
Evangelion Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Walsall, UK Posts: 1,490	By jingo! In the fine old American tradition of advertising testimonials, the US has even set up a Web page full of "before" and "after" photos! (See here.) Yes, you too can benefit from the near-destruction of your entire country and the subsequent descent into chaos, while tribal chiefs fight amongst themselves for your flour ration and your adolescent daughter! Apparently the Afghans had a "new for old" policy in their "Country-got-bombed-to-smithereens-by-Western-Imperialists-who-also-wiped-out-a-civilian-wedding-and-a-bunch-of-Canadian-troops" insurance. Smart move.

03-05-2003, 02:13 PM	#50
Evangelion Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Walsall, UK Posts: 1,490	OK, this is USAID page is just too funny. I would love to see people making up new captions for the photos, just like they did with the "If you have set yourself on fire, do not run" thread.

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