Freethought & Rationalism Archive

dunadan · 03-16-2003, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PassingFair
Fundamentalists in this country have always had a "thing" against France. They're Papist for heaven's sake. Also, they have really disgusting sexual practices, such as French kissing.

Thats FREEDOM kissing now, PassingFair!

Happy Wonderer · 03-16-2003, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Syphor
Perhaps the Bush Administration should fully reimburse France for all economic and military aid provided by her during the War of Independence, return the French fallen back home (assuming any remain), compensate the descendants of those fallen and rejoin the British empire as a loose collection of British colonies and thank the French for allowing the US the opportunity to exist as a nation for two centuries. Perhaps then, and maybe then, the US may gain some sort of moral leverage over France.

Only after we give them back the Louisiana purchase...

HW

marylandnaturegirl · 03-16-2003, 08:49 PM

I've been abhored with France since the 80's and protesting Chirac since the 90's.

Don't be fooled in to thinking that France is a benign peace-loving country.

They happen to have their own agenda with Iraq and are benefitting from Iraq and dealing with them.

Remember, France is the nation that TWICE has bombed and sunken Greenpeace unarmed ships. TWICE! Two different ships, 2 different times!

Everyone knows Greenpeace is a non-violent group that started out as being anti-nuclear weapons group.

France sunk the unarmed Rainbow warrior killing some of those aboard this unarmed Peace ship in INTERNATIONAL WATERS. They tried to cover it up but it eventually came out in public and they were admonished for it.

Greenpeace often has ships get close to ships that are going to test nuclear weapons in the atmosphere because ships are not allowed at the time to do a nuclear tests while other ships are in a certain radius.

France has been testing nuclear weapons in the atmosphere long after the cold war was over and after the other countries agreed to give that up.

Again, in the 90's France bombed and sunk yet another (2nd) Greenpeace ship again unprovoked and unarmed and again in international waters.

Frances pro-nuke status has made the French and Chirac the subject of boycotts for quite a number of years. In the mid 90's people used to put boycott France and nuclear symbol stickers on all the French wine and french cheese in stores. WHY? Because France is very militant and in total disregard of the nuclear fallout they cause. The islands that are their territories are now totally radioactive from nuclear fallout for all the testing they do there and the people have become sick from it.

Lets not forget the French's agression in Africa.

Lets not pretend that the French are beyond reproach and a peaceful people. Nothing could be futher from the truth.

I am a democrat, and an atheist, but certainly NOT a fan or friend of France or Chirac.

Their motivations are not for peace but for economic gain as they do business with Iraq.

marylandnaturegirl · 03-16-2003, 11:15 PM

More details as I was going off my memory alone of stuff that was 18 years ago and 8 years ago.

The islands I was referring two are French Polynesia.

It was the French Secret Service that bombed Rainbow Warrior I (Greenpeace's ship of peace) .The sinking was in 1985 in New Zealand.

They also rammed and gassed Rainbow Warrior II in 1995 when it was trying to protest the French Polynesia nuclear testing situation.

So they attacked both Rainbow warriors, the first sunk the 2nd one that was rammed and gassed I'm not sure if that one ended up sinking or not.

The French also rammed the Vega , another Greenpeace ship.

Anyhow, ask the Polynesians and the Africans how peaceful they think France and Chirac to be.

The French government hates Greenpeace of course and I had personal confirmation of that when I happened to discuss Greenpeace with the wife of the French Ambassador at the French Embassy in DC in 1995.

Why does France hate Greenpeace? For constantly getting the way of their atmospheric nuclear testing.

Thor Q. Mada · 03-16-2003, 11:25 PM

Well, if the US wants to bring the ww1 and 2 soldiers home, as a European, I have absolutely no problem with that. We are a bit short of space, especially in the area's where the cemetaries are. No problem whatsoever. It is not as if these graves are a tourist attraction. What we then also should do is remove all these incompetent generals from there statues. They were the one's directly behind this senseless killing fields, the like of which I hope the world will never see. By the way, some of the US death, are because of chemical weapons, which at that time was by everybody incluisve the US considered as a weapon of mercy. Disgusting isn't it!!

Nira · 03-16-2003, 11:37 PM

More Russians died �saving us� than Americans in WWII, and still we were ungrateful enough to support the US after the war.

I mean voting for what is in our own self-interest, voting for the principles we believe in? A travesty I tell you. We should have supported the USSR and their atrocities instead.

Thor Q. Mada · 03-16-2003, 11:45 PM

Nira,

Thanks for your justified sarcasm. Please note however that deploring the Russian sacrifice during WW2 is not the same as justifying their political system. The people suffer, the regime doesn't.

excreationist · 03-17-2003, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by marylandnaturegirl
...Their motivations are not for peace but for economic gain as they do business with Iraq.

Surely Chirac is partly doing this because of the public...

from Yahoo news story from Google cache - January 15 and 16 poll

1000 people were polled in each of the following countries -France, Germany, Spain, Britain, Russia and the U.S.

totally against military intervention in Iraq
France 60%
Germany 50%
Spain 74%!
Britain 41%
Russia 59%
U.S 21%

in favour of a strike only if authorised by the U.N.
France 27%
Germany 39%
Spain 13%
Britain 39%
Russia 23%
U.S 34%

support a unilateral strike (by U.S.)
France 7%
Germany 9%
Spain 4%
Britain 10%
Russia 7%
U.S 33%

Anyway, a majority of the 1000 French who were surveyed in mid January were totally against any war with Iraq. So the government is reflecting the public's view, even if the government has other reasons for doing so. On the other hand, Spain's government is not going with the majority (74% are totally against war). BTW, what do you think about Russia? They have a similar number as France opposed to war... and they are threatening to veto the U.N. resolution I think...

BTW, it's not surprising that a country has some scandals like the sinking of the rainbow warrior boats - all countries probably do. And you didn't say anyone was hurt or killed... BTW, for a more balanced view, why don't you look at the U.S. section at amnesty.org

seanie · 03-17-2003, 01:04 AM

A Portuguese photographer was killed when the French blew up the Rainbow Warrior.

lunachick · 03-17-2003, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seanie
A Portuguese photographer was killed when the French blew up the Rainbow Warrior.

So was a NZ volunteer Greenpeace worker. An environmental scientist, if memory serves me well.

03-16-2003, 08:49 PM	#13
marylandnaturegirl Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Washington DC Metro Area Posts: 151	France IS just as miltant, pot calling kettle black I've been abhored with France since the 80's and protesting Chirac since the 90's. Don't be fooled in to thinking that France is a benign peace-loving country. They happen to have their own agenda with Iraq and are benefitting from Iraq and dealing with them. Remember, France is the nation that TWICE has bombed and sunken Greenpeace unarmed ships. TWICE! Two different ships, 2 different times! Everyone knows Greenpeace is a non-violent group that started out as being anti-nuclear weapons group. France sunk the unarmed Rainbow warrior killing some of those aboard this unarmed Peace ship in INTERNATIONAL WATERS. They tried to cover it up but it eventually came out in public and they were admonished for it. Greenpeace often has ships get close to ships that are going to test nuclear weapons in the atmosphere because ships are not allowed at the time to do a nuclear tests while other ships are in a certain radius. France has been testing nuclear weapons in the atmosphere long after the cold war was over and after the other countries agreed to give that up. Again, in the 90's France bombed and sunk yet another (2nd) Greenpeace ship again unprovoked and unarmed and again in international waters. Frances pro-nuke status has made the French and Chirac the subject of boycotts for quite a number of years. In the mid 90's people used to put boycott France and nuclear symbol stickers on all the French wine and french cheese in stores. WHY? Because France is very militant and in total disregard of the nuclear fallout they cause. The islands that are their territories are now totally radioactive from nuclear fallout for all the testing they do there and the people have become sick from it. Lets not forget the French's agression in Africa. Lets not pretend that the French are beyond reproach and a peaceful people. Nothing could be futher from the truth. I am a democrat, and an atheist, but certainly NOT a fan or friend of France or Chirac. Their motivations are not for peace but for economic gain as they do business with Iraq.

03-16-2003, 11:15 PM	#14
marylandnaturegirl Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Washington DC Metro Area Posts: 151	Rainbow Warrior and Rainbow Warrior II More details as I was going off my memory alone of stuff that was 18 years ago and 8 years ago. The islands I was referring two are French Polynesia. It was the French Secret Service that bombed Rainbow Warrior I (Greenpeace's ship of peace) .The sinking was in 1985 in New Zealand. They also rammed and gassed Rainbow Warrior II in 1995 when it was trying to protest the French Polynesia nuclear testing situation. So they attacked both Rainbow warriors, the first sunk the 2nd one that was rammed and gassed I'm not sure if that one ended up sinking or not. The French also rammed the Vega , another Greenpeace ship. Anyhow, ask the Polynesians and the Africans how peaceful they think France and Chirac to be. The French government hates Greenpeace of course and I had personal confirmation of that when I happened to discuss Greenpeace with the wife of the French Ambassador at the French Embassy in DC in 1995. Why does France hate Greenpeace? For constantly getting the way of their atmospheric nuclear testing.

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03-16-2003, 11:25 PM	#15
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	Well, if the US wants to bring the ww1 and 2 soldiers home, as a European, I have absolutely no problem with that. We are a bit short of space, especially in the area's where the cemetaries are. No problem whatsoever. It is not as if these graves are a tourist attraction. What we then also should do is remove all these incompetent generals from there statues. They were the one's directly behind this senseless killing fields, the like of which I hope the world will never see. By the way, some of the US death, are because of chemical weapons, which at that time was by everybody incluisve the US considered as a weapon of mercy. Disgusting isn't it!!

03-16-2003, 11:37 PM	#16
Nira Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Norway Posts: 806	More Russians died �saving us� than Americans in WWII, and still we were ungrateful enough to support the US after the war. I mean voting for what is in our own self-interest, voting for the principles we believe in? A travesty I tell you. We should have supported the USSR and their atrocities instead.

03-16-2003, 11:45 PM	#17
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	Nira, Thanks for your justified sarcasm. Please note however that deploring the Russian sacrifice during WW2 is not the same as justifying their political system. The people suffer, the regime doesn't.

03-17-2003, 01:04 AM	#19
seanie Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edinburgh. Scotland Posts: 2,532	A Portuguese photographer was killed when the French blew up the Rainbow Warrior.

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