Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Mr. Toodles · 09-02-2002, 08:25 PM

Right, if we dont mix the religions around a bit every once and a while they will just start a holy war. Just for fun...

Alien worship cults, i wonder what that would be like. <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> Probably ilogical and maybe, just maybe, suisidal. At least they remove themselfs from the gene pool.

exactamundo · 09-05-2002, 07:29 PM

The bible is already full of so many holes, errors and contradictions. If the theist don't already see it they never will, no matter how much evidence is put in front of their illogical brains. So why would some intelligent lifeform from another world make any difference. They will always find some obscure passage in their dusty old book that if read backwards while rubbing their stomache in an anti-clockwise motion on the 28th day of february that would some how have predicted it and explained it.

Bad Religion · 09-09-2002, 10:26 AM

Back in my fundie days, I used to listen to a christian singer by the name of Larry Norman, he had a song lyric that went something like this...

"If there is life on other planets, I am sure he has been there and died for thier sins too..."

Delusion knows no bounds.

[ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: Bad Religion ]

atrahasis · 09-11-2002, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secular Elation:
In so far as I know, the Bible (or most other holy texts from other religions) do not say much, if anything, about extraterrestrial life.

Do you think if we discovered some sort of life form on other planets would develop a sour stomach for the religious? To me, it seems, if there was some sort of intelligent life on another planet (or even a basic form of life for that matter) then that would simply raise far more questions on religion than there all ready are. Comments?

I don't know what most guys here will think but the bible if interpretted in another way seems aware of extraterrestrial life.
for example this:
Ezekiel 1:4-27

Quote:

I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north-an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal, 5 and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance their form was that of a man, 6 but each of them had four faces and four wings. 7 Their legs were straight; their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished bronze. 8 Under their wings on their four sides they had the hands of a man. All four of them had faces and wings, 9 and their wings touched one another. Each one went straight ahead; they did not turn as they moved.
10 Their faces looked like this: Each of the four had the face of a man, and on the right side each had the face of a lion, and on the left the face of an ox; each also had the face of an eagle. 11 Such were their faces. Their wings were spread out upward; each had two wings, one touching the wing of another creature on either side, and two wings covering its body. 12 Each one went straight ahead. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, without turning as they went. 13 The appearance of the living creatures was like burning coals of fire or like torches. Fire moved back and forth among the creatures; it was bright, and lightning flashed out of it. 14 The creatures sped back and forth like flashes of lightning.
15 As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature with its four faces. 16 This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like chrysolite, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. 17 As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced; the wheels did not turn about [4] as the creatures went. 18 Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around.
19 When the living creatures moved, the wheels beside them moved; and when the living creatures rose from the ground, the wheels also rose. 20 Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, and the wheels would rise along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. 21 When the creatures moved, they also moved; when the creatures stood still, they also stood still; and when the creatures rose from the ground, the wheels rose along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.
22 Spread out above the heads of the living creatures was what looked like an expanse, sparkling like ice, and awesome. 23 Under the expanse their wings were stretched out one toward the other, and each had two wings covering its body. 24 When the creatures moved, I heard the sound of their wings, like the roar of rushing waters, like the voice of the Almighty, [5] like the tumult of an army. When they stood still, they lowered their wings.
25 Then there came a voice from above the expanse over their heads as they stood with lowered wings. 26 Above the expanse over their heads was what looked like a throne of sapphire, [6] and high above on the throne was a figure like that of a man. 27 I saw that from what appeared to be his waist up he looked like glowing metal, as if full of fire, and that from there down he looked like fire; and brilliant light surrounded him. 28 Like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the radiance around him.
This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD . When I saw it, I fell facedown, and I heard the voice of one speaking.

What could Ezekial be desribing? Remember Ezekial was not as smart as we are...?!**

To conclude:: The bible was translated to hide such "bizarre" occassions. As in religion was/is already aware of a possibility of life else where.

--------------------------------------------------
The numbers are supposed to be in superscript..to indicate verses.
--------------------------------------------------

--Thanks----

--Let the wise teach the mystery to the wise--

Valentine Pontifex · 09-17-2002, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gutterboy:
The discovery of single celled extraterrestrial life would deal a blow to the sort of creationists who love to repeat BS like "life can't come from dead chemicals!"

Then again, if they are irrational enough to buy creationism in the first place I'm sure they'd have no problem explaining it away. They'd just look dumber in the eyes of the general public, which probably isn't a bad thing considering the amount of people who believe in special creation.

How would the discovery of life on the other world imply that "life can't come from dead chemicals!" is false?

It does not. If a God can have been said to have created life on Earth, then He can bave been said to have created life on Earth and [fill in the blank].

I don't see the discovery of non-intellegent life as being of any problem for the fundies.

And I don't see how discovering life makes the notion of naturalistic abiogenesis any more likely either.

Now the discovery of intellegent life, in the long term will probably mean the death of fundamentalism as we know it though theism can and will survive.

MadMordigan · 09-17-2002, 12:17 PM

If we are lucky, they will think WE are gods. That will make the options of colonization or extermination much easier.

Marduk · 09-17-2002, 03:51 PM

What you mean "we" Earthboy?

Gregg · 09-19-2002, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Black Moses:

What could Ezekial be desribing? Remember Ezekial was not as smart as we are...?!**

To conclude:: The bible was translated to hide such "bizarre" occassions. As in religion was/is already aware of a possibility of life else where.
]--

This is Von Daniken stuff. And what the heck do you mean by "The Bible was translated to hide such bizarre occasions" ?? Why would anyone have felt the need to cover anything up?

It's quite a stretch to go from somebody in Biblical times supposedly having a vision of angelic beings surrounded by wheels of fire to saying that these beings were really aliens from another star. If Ezekiel really did have these visions (hallucinations, really) and wasn't making them up (the fanciful imagery may have symbolic meanings that are now lost to us), it was probably because his mind was steeped in thoughts of angels and suchlike.

In the Middle Ages, people hallucinated about being abducted by fairies. Nowadays they hallucinate about creatures that look somewhat like overgrown human fetuses, driving interstellar starships, who paralyze and abduct people to perform crossbreeding experiments. Isn't it possible that these "visions" are a manifestation of some deep-seated psychological issues, or a product of brain chemistry, and the specific content depends on the culture (in the same way our dreams are built out of the raw material of our daily lives)?

Gregg

Waning Moon Conrad · 09-22-2002, 04:53 AM

As a Buddhist I can well imagine what would happen.

Sitting in a Dharma centre and somebody mentions to the Lama that intelligent life has been discovered, SETI has picked up transmissions, the proof is there and it is absolutely conclusive.

The Lama nods and says, "Yes that's fantastic."

Everybody is thrilled. Somebody mentions a sutra where the Buddha stated that all of the stars in the sky are actually suns, that many have planets and that many planets have intelligent life with cultures etc and that some of those have some sort of dharma teachings.

Somebody mentions that various texts speak of worlds and world-systems and other buddhas presiding over other worlds or teaching in other worlds.

The Lama says, "Yes this is all good.....now back to the Heart Sutra....."

After the session everybody gathers for tea or coffee or goes to the pub and talks about aliens, dharma, football, harpsichords, opera, rock n' roll or who's fucking whom.

beoba · 09-22-2002, 10:10 AM

I think that many religions would be very hurt by a discovery that life exists elsewhere, as most religions have the central idea that humans are special in the universe.

"God created man in his own image"
"Earth is the center of the universe"

etc.

09-09-2002, 10:26 AM	#43
Bad Religion Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: memphis, tn. usa Posts: 127	Back in my fundie days, I used to listen to a christian singer by the name of Larry Norman, he had a song lyric that went something like this... "If there is life on other planets, I am sure he has been there and died for thier sins too..." Delusion knows no bounds. [ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: Bad Religion ]</p>

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09-02-2002, 08:25 PM	#41
Mr. Toodles New Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Dubai Posts: 4	Right, if we dont mix the religions around a bit every once and a while they will just start a holy war. Just for fun... Alien worship cults, i wonder what that would be like. <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> Probably ilogical and maybe, just maybe, suisidal. At least they remove themselfs from the gene pool.

09-05-2002, 07:29 PM	#42
exactamundo New Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Western Canada Posts: 4	The bible is already full of so many holes, errors and contradictions. If the theist don't already see it they never will, no matter how much evidence is put in front of their illogical brains. So why would some intelligent lifeform from another world make any difference. They will always find some obscure passage in their dusty old book that if read backwards while rubbing their stomache in an anti-clockwise motion on the 28th day of february that would some how have predicted it and explained it.

09-17-2002, 12:17 PM	#46
MadMordigan Beloved Deceased Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 2,704	If we are lucky, they will think WE are gods. That will make the options of colonization or extermination much easier.

09-17-2002, 03:51 PM	#47
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	What you mean "we" Earthboy?

09-22-2002, 04:53 AM	#49
Waning Moon Conrad Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Victoria. Australia Posts: 1,417	As a Buddhist I can well imagine what would happen. Sitting in a Dharma centre and somebody mentions to the Lama that intelligent life has been discovered, SETI has picked up transmissions, the proof is there and it is absolutely conclusive. The Lama nods and says, "Yes that's fantastic." Everybody is thrilled. Somebody mentions a sutra where the Buddha stated that all of the stars in the sky are actually suns, that many have planets and that many planets have intelligent life with cultures etc and that some of those have some sort of dharma teachings. Somebody mentions that various texts speak of worlds and world-systems and other buddhas presiding over other worlds or teaching in other worlds. The Lama says, "Yes this is all good.....now back to the Heart Sutra....." After the session everybody gathers for tea or coffee or goes to the pub and talks about aliens, dharma, football, harpsichords, opera, rock n' roll or who's fucking whom.

09-22-2002, 10:10 AM	#50
beoba Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Boston Posts: 699	I think that many religions would be very hurt by a discovery that life exists elsewhere, as most religions have the central idea that humans are special in the universe. "God created man in his own image" "Earth is the center of the universe" etc.

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