Treacle Worshipper

You mean it isn't law that you do this in the States? You have to do it in the UK, even for Sunday School teachers. Everyone has to fill in a form before they're allowed to work with kids.
TW

Talulah

HAHAHA,

No, as far as I know, the only place that does back ground checks are schools, for janitors, teachers, everyone working with children that are state/federally funded. Also, maybe scouts, I don't know.

What I was laughing about, was your Sunday School comment. Some Xtains here would let a convicted child molestor teach Sunday school if he said he 'saved'. Not only that, a lot of churches have inside knowledge of abuse going on and still won't say anything. Mormons and JW's for instance. I read articles about them sometimes on the web, about kids who come forward about adults who have molested them in the church and end up getting shunned themselves for 'enticement' or some such shit. The adults have records miles long, but who cares.....

HelenM

I can't speak for other churches but I know my church won't let anyone work with children until they've run a background check on them.

Helen

Talulah

Not to cast doubt on your Church Helen, I believe you. I just know that I wasn't ever in a church that did. In fact, I attended a church that had a bank robber for a preacher for 4 years and no one found out until he violated parole and got sent back to jail...


heh heh heh.

Treacle Worshipper

That's just terrible. In Britain, not only does everyone have to be checked out, you also have to have at least 2 adults with every group of children. It's also recommended that mixed groups of children have adults of both sexes working with them. In our local Methodist church the youth worker (young married man) will cancel the meeting if he can't get a female helper. (This doesn't happen too often. Everyone's more or less got used to the new rules and regs now. They came in 4 or 5 years ago.)

Quote Helen:
Helen, I'm very glad to hear it. Everybody who works with kids in the UK has had to become very aware of what is & is not acceptable over the last few years. (Technically, you're not even supposed to hug a child who's so upset she's got tears streaming down her face. In practice, she will get comforted, but I would still make sure that another adult was aware of the situation and in the same room, even if they're working with the other kids.) the idea of not doing background checks worries me a lot.
TW

TomboyMom

Does anyone else see the irony of christians criticizing a group for allowing gay people to serve as mentors, while at least one of the world's leading christian churches has served as a safe haven and employer for serial child molesters?

Rene

lisarea

I have tried very hard to accept that others have different belief systems than I do, but this can be terribly frustrating when it's not returned in kind.

Others have brought this up, but it's a very important point, so I'll say it again: Gay children commit suicide at far greater rates than straight ones do. Adolescence is a difficult time regardless of the impulses it brings to the forefront; but the Christian legacy of hatred and demonizing homosexuality has created an atmosphere in which suicide can seem like the only tolerable option for a gay teenager. I'll put it bluntly: YOUR BELIEF SYSTEM IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS. Note that I do not hate you, spurly, but I do hate your belief system. It is cruel, judgemental, divisive, and all too often, deadly.

Regardless even of this, it is not my goal to eliminate or stifle your freedom to believe whatever you want to. While I dislike many of the tenets of your belief system, I do not consider it appropriate to try to deny you your right to practice it, nor do I consider it a serious danger to my own child. My own moral code and tenets are strong enough to withstand the fearmongering and hatred so pervasive in yours. I have no problem with my son's role models having different belief systems than mine, because I don't fear your indoctrination. And I find it interesting that hatemongers such as Dobson seem to recognize the frailty of their teachings, as evidenced by the constant attempts to rid the world of differing standards.

It is not your place, nor is it Dobson's, to force your religious beliefs onto a secular organization. I don't go into church daycares and demand they change their methods and teachings to more accurately reflect my own perspectives.

And I think you've seriously misjudged the 'innocence' of children. In this context, 'innocence' serves as nothing more than a codeword for 'stupidity,' assuming that children don't have the integrity or intellectual capacity to accept reality as it is. I would suggest that if your belief system and moral foundations are so fragile as to be rendered worthless by the casual influence of homosexuality or other 'sins,' it is not the 'sins' that need to be modified.

Fr.Andrew

Very well said, lisarea. I would add the hierarchy of the BSA to the list of those, like Dobson, whose callous disregard for the sensibilities of gay children has been the source of much suffering and misery...and suicide.
There's nothing quite like being told, as a sexually confused adolescent, that the feelings over which you have no control are not "morally straight"--and that you would be denied the society of your schoolmates if it were known that you harbor them.
And the point of your distinction between "innocence" and "ignorance/stupidity" is well made, imo. Children shielded from reality have a tougher time dealing with it when they grow up.

spurly

However the interests and concerns of the parent must be taken into consideration. The parent is the one responsible for the child's upbringing. I believe that is what I said in my post.

Kevin

Treacle Worshipper

Oh, yes. And it is sickening.

Lisarea: :notworthy Excellent post.

Quote spurly:
However the interests and concerns of the parent must be taken into consideration. The parent is the one responsible for the child's upbringing. I believe that is what I said in my post.
I pity the child if they turn out to be gay, if their parents are so anti-gay that they will specifically weed out a gay mentor. Seems to me such a child would be one with an increased suicide risk.

Spurly, this is a genuine question and I am not trying to get at you. But what if your daughter turned out to be gay? Can you see how disapproving of homosexuality and trying to prevent her awareness of it could affect her self-image?
TW