Ronin

~ missed you much, caro Sabine.

Sabine Grant

Hello again Rick.... Let us imagine that we are holding court to judge the Pope. He has been convicted of being a source of evil over millions of human beings. You are the judge who is to apply the sentence. I am his defense attorney.
I tried to make a deal with the DA to obtain a reduced sentence. Turned down.
I present my case to you :
" Your Honor.... my client is a sincere man who honestly believed he represented God's Will . He has expressed regrets for his mistakes in his limited understanding of God's Will. In his misled endeavor, he has failed to live his life according to Christ's teachings. He ignored material modesty by encouraging the lavishness of the State of Vatican, he usurpated titles that Christ commanded to attribute only to God, he led believers to worship saints above God himself, he covered up the rampant evil of priests molesting children, he supported a dogma which prevents priests from having a family and bars women from accessing priesthood, he condemned abortion but failed to enable believers to use contraception control methods, by upholding his dogma and refusing to allow reformation, he projected the image of a God who has no part in the growth of mankind and the intelligence of the human brain.
He aknowledges today that he witheld the gift of reason from believers by imposing on them what he believed to be true.
He is indeed highly accountable for misleading millions of people in following his dogma.
I ask though that my client be not put to death. He must be given the time to reflect on how he could have done things differently. He will project his thoughts from his cell in a book and reach the millions he misled. He and he only can reverse the evil. I ask that you apply grace to my client and allow him to make a difference."

Here is the difference Rick....once a human being becomes aware of his wrong doing and is willing to admit it, it impacts on those who were the victims. It promotes healing and recovery. We all have the capacity to reconsider our actions ( if mentaly able). As a christian, I believe that faith can change a person and modify his state of mind to a betterment of his consciousness. I believe that a "repenting" human being can have a productive effect on society and contribute to its betterment.
Where I percieve the charlatan Benny to laugh at the "face" of God and show no admittance of his evil schemes, I percieve that old man to be able to be touched by what I believe is faith. Of course my perspective is from a christian point of view.

What is your sentence Rick?

Sabine Grant

Caro Ronin... good to be missed! as you honestly presented your endeavor against the evils of christianity, I have somehow presented mine against what I consider the evils of catholicism.

Yes... the crowds are the ones to be reached. The audience is to be the recipient of challenging thoughts.

As an atheist though, you have little credibility that you may be objective in your approach to reach crowds of believers. You are going to be confronted with " you are attacking our God". See the idea is not to attack any god but to reshape in the mind of people the malformed image of God they have been fed with. Of course as an atheist, you do not have the conviction to do so.

It is a process Ronin... step by step.

How you reach the fundies and hard core religious individuals is by confronting them with the personality of the one they claim to follow. You have to use tools they can relate to. You can still challenge the evils of christianity by bringing the focus on Christ as a simple man. You need not to aknowledge his divinity.

The accumulation of wealth and the use of religion to do so seems to be the common ground between the Benny Hinns and other religious leaders. IMO, you have better chances to break thru the blindness of the victims by confronting them with the teachings on material modesty presented in the Gospels.

Your endeavor is to denounce the evils of christianity. Mine is to restore the teachings of Christ in the minds of christians. As I understand them personaly of course. I do not pertain to detain the truth.

Dr Rick

Not guilty, by reason of insanity.

Rick

Sabine Grant

Would you give the same verdict to Benny ?

fromtheright

Speechless,

Hmmm....shouldn't it be us atheists denouncing this guy? It is likely he's an atheist after all - he certainly doesn't seem to believe in divine retribution at least!

Hey, you may be onto something there. That's it--Hinn is not a Christian at all, he is an atheist. Maybe that means Christianity won't be stained with such idiocy and fraud, we can point to him and Bakker as just another couple of atheists. That's the ticket!

On a serious side, I must say that I am pleasantly surprised, and appreciate the fact, that this thread hasn't been a bunch of infidels screaming, "See, we told you all Christians were frauds!" Such restraint tells me I seriously misjudged you guys.

Gene/FTR

dirkduck

, well if we take another trip up there sometime, then I'll keep that in mind! I havn't been up for a couple years, but for a while my family would go up every year or so for a vacation.

Debbie T

It really saddened me when the little boy was up on stage crying about his eyesight. I thought what is going to happen when that little boy realizes his vision isn't any better than before.

The program reminded me of a time in my childhood where we went to an auditorium to listen to a traveling preacher much like Hinn. We went for a couple of nights. I remember when he was going through the audience and touching people and people were falling to the floor. He came to me and I expected to fall over but I didn't. So the preacher literally pushed me pretty hard and I fell from the force of it. So I just laid there stunned not daring to get back up on my feet again, afraid I would be knocked over again. The next night when he came to me again I made myself fall backwards because I didn't want to be pushed over again.

Also the minister of our church the next Sunday announced that the preacher took off with all the money. The ministry was supposed to give a cut of the money to each of the churches that helped promote it. Our minister was angry and let the congregation know the preacher was a fraud. I wondered how that made them feel especially after going along with being slain in the spirit from this fraud's touch. Hmmm maybe they were all pushed over like I was.

Some of the people on the program the way they were falling some literally jumping up and landing on their backs I wondered if anyone gets injured?

CALDONIA

Benny Hinn is a new face on an old story. Belief overcomes logic .
The followers of him and his ilk seek to validate their own nonsensical beliefs and will never be disuaded by "exposes." Belief in itself is a virtue, nothing else matters.

Ronin

I’ve neglected you ~ I apologize.

Tom-ay-to ~ Tom-ah-to.

I have one ~ there are no God(s)ess(es)...now, fly be free.

But as a humanist I have more than enough…and I’ll be there for them no matter what their delusion ~ until my dying day.

My conviction is to challenge that which goes unchallenged…the rest is up to them, Sabine ~ you should know that by now.

I agree ~ as is a simple life, free from the burdens of religious dogma.

I need not acknowledge “Christ” at all ~ for that word itself implies an elitist lack of simplicity.

This middleman, among others, is honestly unnecessary…we have been over this before.

You are welcome to your opinions ~ however, it is obvious that the ‘use of religion’ includes using the “material modesty presented in the Gospels” in order to accumulate wealth from these crowds in order to fill the pockets of the con-men and 'authoritative representatives' of Sky Fairy Prime.

A vile deception and worthy of my scorn and conviction to debunk each of their claims at any opportunity.

Well, rotsa ruck ~ as for me, there is no difference.

I know what bullshit is when I see it ~ therein lies the difference between us.